Thursday, July 5, 2012

Every-bodies talking bout

I cherry picked through a certain web site for estranged parents, and found some glaring examples of the cold shoulder they give kids that have gone no contact.
Yes, I said cherry picked. They are not all as bad as this.
Who am I kidding? 
It's a complete set of self aggrandizing, platitude spewing posts from broads that answer to no one. Especially not to their ingrate bastard kids.
There are two flavors of posts
Those that call us snotty little shits.
And those that bend over backwards to agree with those calling us snotty little shits.
I feel as if I time traveled back to the set of Heathers.  

 I am aware that there are parents that should be held harmless in the estrangement of their children.
But I know when I read writing from smug and entitled people. People who see child rearing as a tick list.
Regular chow and a roof....check
Car ....check. 
College check.
Done done and fucking done. 
Now get away from me. 
There is more to parenting than throwing money at a kid.
When estranged parents post here, I would love to indulge them. If the comments didn't sound so..... flip.
No one speaks the way they do. It's a petty thing to say. But they sound as if they stepped out of a 50's era readers digest. If you do nothing but sit on your ass and talk smack to other bitches, it tends to skew your reality. 
I doubt their dialogue would pass the Turing test.
A moderator there has resigned herself to permanent estrangement with her son and will now be wearing mascara again. 
Like she cried about it 24/7. 
You gotta be shitting me. 
I am a reasonable person. But all I have to judge them on is their words. 

Egad! I am beating this dead horse into glue. I have no dog in this fight. My mother is a lost cause. Our whole relationship was an illusion so there is nothing for me to salvage. 
There is some defect in my thinking that makes me want to make people see the light when they are so  oblivious to their condition.  
When will I ever learn?
And why didn't I learn to type? 
I would delete this whole pile but I refuse to delete something that was such a hassle to type. 
So here you go you cucumber sandwich eating, gin soaked bitches. 
I'm "THE ONE" whose mother is a homicidal maniac.
Who knows what I am capable of? 
Better let me get my ya ya's out and pretend you didn't see this. 
Which you probably won't. It's a bit narcissistic of me to think any of you will find your way over here.

Here are select quotes from the estranged parents site. My smart ass remarks are in purple. Or mauve. It might be mauve. Sort of the color of a sunrise  illuminating the spot where a drunk heaved the night before.


*How embarrassing that the manager where I live; now knows; that my own son could care less about me

He might not have known, but I bet he could of guessed.

**I have been separate from my daughter (26) since our mutual estrangement in December, but it
was years in the making with lots of pain and tears that I don't need to describe. Suddenly my 17 year old daughter is being rebellious and hurtful and I'm propelled into not only that pain, but it becomes mushed together with the scab from my first daughter and I feel overwhelmed.

Is there a pattern emerging?

I am now aware of who my son is and that he is a taker and will not change.

How about you change a little bit for once in your life?

At first I wanted to fix things with my ED because I wanted to protect her from the regret she would surely have if this wasn't resolved before my death.

Your only concern is that she not beat herself up after you are dead and gone?

This is a post from an estranged son. 

Poor Yorick, we all knew someone like him well. 

The majority of you estranged parents believe that you have done nothing wrong and wonder why your children are estranged. You did your best to love your child and raise him the way you thought was best. My parents divorced when I was 9 years old and it was one of the worst experiences of my life. My father was a drunk, hit my mother and tried to constantly bribe me for information that my mom would supposedly keep from him. My mother even held a knife to her stomach in front of my 2 younger sisters and I and almost committed suicide in front of us, but she passed out and we took the knife away from her.

He goes on to paint a picture of his life and it's not pretty.

Here is some of what he got back.

I am sorry you had such a miserable childhood but do not come here and paint every parent with the same brush. My husband and I have 3 children all raised with the same set of rules.

Blah blah blabbity blah. Then she ends with this.

 I would not be so callous as to portray every other estranged child as being the same. Nor should you base those here on your parents. 'nuff said

Nuff said is right.

What I heard was this....... I don't like being lumped in with other dysfunctional people. Even if I am the queen of dysfunction. I prefer to think I am a distributor of dysfunction lite. Less effort, twice the head fuck. 

And this.

Many if not all parents here are so wounded by rewritten history, false accusations, viscious verbal attacks, and the like which further destroys a chance at an honest relationship. I have been here for almost a year, yet I have been through estrangment for over 2 decades with my children and I had no place else to go and view this place as my safe haven (sacred too) to come and lick my wounds my children have visciously bestowed upon me. They use their children as weapons and have a sense of entitlement which is very detrimental to both sides. My children were far from perfect themselves, but asked me to be perfect which is unrealistic.

Ma'am, please step out of your vehicle and stand with one foot six inches off the ground while counting out loud by thousands until I instruct you to stop. Keep your hands at your side, look down at your feet, and keep your toes pointed in.

And this.

I have to ask you - Have you ever taken care of another individual? How about a pet? Have you ever been responsible for anything or anybody other than yourself? Now I'm talking about totally providing for someone who is pretty much helpless without you. I am talking about working like a dog at a lousy job and having to eat your "superior's" sh_t with a knife and fork - probably dealing with a-hole coworkers as well and for all that, collecting your measly paycheck. And if you lose that job, your kids go hungry and you're all out living on the street.

Here is one of their tells. She works like a dog and eats the bosses shit. And her co-workers are probably ass-holes. 

Either they are, or they are not. 
I think you stay home and f your husband. 

And this.

Why do we always sound apologetic to these estranged children (aka adults now) THAT COME ON THIS SITE...WHY DO WE HAVE TO EXPLAIN ANYTHING????

I just went to copy more of Yorick's post.
If a post is not about devaluing and discarding their bastard kids, they don't want to hear it. 
The Barbarian is looking pretty good right about now. She was a bottomless pit of head fuck, but I KNOW! she is crazy and I had to get the fuck away from her.
These people are like old politicians.
They have an answer for everything and always someone to point a finger at.
Nuff said!


vicariousrising said...

I love your commentary/translations.

I avoid the estrangement sites for the most part because they are so clearly delusional craptards. Thank god their kids got away.

Poor Yorick. I wish he'd stumbled onto one of our blogs instead of their vipers' nest of self righteousness and ill will.

Kara said...

"How embarrassing that the manager where I live; now knows; that my own son could care less about me"
Of course, because what really matters is what the manager thinks not how her son feels about her. That's what really bothers them, that it looks bad on them. It's all about appearances. No wonder their children don't want anything to do with them. All of their comments are about them.

Loved your commentary too. The "cucumber sandwich" reference made me laugh out loud :)

q1605 said...

Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in.
I just had to add this post from over there, here in the comments.
I bet mine regret it when they find out they've been left out of my will..
bet your son would too if it happened to him..
it's sad they're like that but hey..there's always Karma! *hug*

Tundra Woman said...

I don't bother with those sites simply because I still have a cache of snail mail letters here somewhere if I really needed a "refresher course." Someday I ought to pull 'em out and share them; I have them because I needed documentary evidence and have moved several times and they stayed packed during my years of somewhat nomadic living. They were unearthed a few years ago-they're actually priceless in terms of the chronology and the "switching up" the tactics. The absolute *best* of the bunch is her oh!-BITCH-uary.
Which brings me to Kara's observation and your post regarding public "embarrassment:" I firmly believe this is a HUGE "motivator"-"What will people THINK?" This underscores the EPs absurd preoccupation with "Appearances" first, last, always. The reality is the EP is just NOT as important to others as they THINK they are. They are NOT the Center of THE Universe; however, they surely are the Center of THEIR Universe. Reality? Frankly my dear, no one gives a damn.
"...the regret she would SURELY HAVE if this wasn't resolved before my death." How damn presumptuous a statement is THAT? The reality is the AC has grieved the EPs death long before their death to this world, often for YEARS. Her death will be a relief.
The MULTIPLE estrangements by their ACs (shakes head): Not only is it a pattern, any normal adult has the capacity for self-reflection and self-correction. Apparently this one is so far off the bell shaped curve, they're not even hangin' out on the "tails."
And since when is providing food, clothing and shelter even CLOSE to fulfilling your role as a parent? You HAD these kids-that was YOUR choice. You ended up in a crappy job but for what ever reason refused to acquire the skills and/or education to acquire employment where you were not surrounded by assholes. Frankly, I'm not sure ANY employment opportunity would not expose you to all kinds of people. Fortunately, you weren't inflicted on other hapless colleagues somewhere else. Such a martyr! And I bet her kids were the recipients of not only her PD but her rage over her employment and absolute hatred of her life in EVERY way.
No one/AC has EVER asked a parent to be "Perfect." EVER. The relationship between a child and a parent is so PRIMAL, so unconditionally loving and accepting on the part of the child it takes YEARS OF MALTREATMENT TO DESTROY THAT BOND. It is NOT "NORMAL." And there's no way to make it so. It is THAT reality we accept eventually, integrate and move on with our lives. But we can't "un-know" what we know to be true-horribly painful, but realistic.
I know there are limits on response length, so I'll stop now. But I'm not done by any means.
"Never again will one generation of Veterans forsake another." I believe that, I live that and I'll reach out to ANY AC struggling with Parents Who Weren't.

Kara said...

"No one/AC has EVER asked a parent to be "Perfect." This is so true. The only thing children really want from their parents is love. It isn't that hard, is it?
I've been keeping documentary evidence for the last four years, you should see the cards we've had from sociopath BIL, they're written in big capitals, (we always joke that they're like a kidnapper's ransom notes) only so he can go away to people and say they he sent a card, because what other people think is really important to him obviously. It's pathetic.

Adela Alba said...

I read that thread there from the estranged son. Sometimes I like to skim the forums to marvel at how there minds seem to work, especially their complete and utter disregard for their children's (or anyone else's) subjective experiences.

I was greatly amused by their bitching about estranged children coming to their forum and bothering them, seeing as some of them like to come bother our blogs!

Tundra Woman said...

I guess if I felt I could add something to the EPs Blogs, I'd go there. But I can't: They're being advised by self-proclaimed "Professionals" who are making big $$ off these EPs and I'm horrified by some of the "suggestions:" The EPs are being "guided" by transparently template letters, if not encouraged certainly not DISCOURAGED from engaging in activities which in my jurisdiction are minimally prosecutorial as misdemeanors and some are actually felonies. HUH?
I believe so much of the stuff that's being "advised" is some of the WORST possible response to an AC-this will ENSURE you'll NEVER achieve reconciliation-if indeed that WAS truly your goal. Jonsie has a great post about her NC with her parents, how that came about and how it was handled and rectified. Check it out. But here's what her EPs DIDN'T DO:
-They didn't discuss this very private, personally painful situation with everyone and anyone. They showed respect for themselves and took the estrangement seriously.
-They did not engage in "Recruiting" everyone/anyone to "Their Side."
-They did not scream like stuck pigs and slime/malign/denigrate their AC. They had enough sense to recognize others look at the EPs and think, "If your kid was/is so awful why are you bitching about them anyway?" People get really tired of hearing about this after awhile.
-They respected her need for time and space.
-They did not just "Show Up" (Ambush) her at her home or her place of business.
-They did not call her employer, her friends, her neighbors and attempt to "Get Their Point Across" while denigrating some young woman these people may not have known or may have known WELL in an attempt to pump them for information.
-They did not stalk her in ANY WAY: They did not drive by her home, show up where she may be found or otherwise push THEIR agenda on her.
-They did not "Blame" her SO/Parter.
-They had enough common sense, self-respect and respect for the severity of the situation to back away and hand the responsibility for contact to her when she was ready.
-They did not pummel her with snail mail, emails, "gifts" or threats. They shut the hell up.
-They recognized there may well have been other things going on in her life concurrently. They took it very personally, but more importantly were able to file this under "The Larger Picture" of their daughter's life at the time.
These are just a few of the responses I noted from her parents who were, well, normal. Yet what I see over and over again with the EPs who are PD'd is they use the same damn "playbook." It's just too consistent for me to not conclude normal parents have an entirely different response to their ACs than the screwed up beyond belief parents we're dealing with.
And our's are all about THEMSELVES. No doubt your AC attempted LC/MC, attempted to discuss the issues with the EP before initiating NC. But these EPs MISSED that whole message. Entirely. Just like they "missed" our reality for years before. No wonder they're shocked and pissed: Something finally penetrated their "All About Me" brains, such as they are. And instead of saying, Whoa, wait one-how did this come about? What did I miss here?" they go on a HUGE offensive which only serves to confirm the AC's decision.
A crevasse, a rift in a relationship does NOT have to become a sinkhole, a bottomless pit in which no light ever penetrates. But their responses serve to ensure a reproachment from which there is no reconciliation. And the EPs did that all by themselves. And no one will ever successfully repair the irreparable: "An Enduring Pattern of Behavior as Characterized By..." And it doesn't matter which Cluster B criteria they meet or whether or not some Mental Health "Professional" gave them a formal dx. The AC knows what they experienced: It's seared on their soul.

q1605 said...

Man TW, you have written some great stuff but this last comment beats it all.
I thought about asking your permission to make it all first person and post it there but it wouldn't last an hour.
They are just too mod-tight.
For them to pull that guys post who's story sounded a bit like mine was unconscionable. said you read that guys post?
It's not there now is it?
I looked and couldn't find it.
But I am to the point of losing my car keys by hiding them from myself in the freezer so who knows?

Tundra Woman said...

My understanding is they jerk posts from ACs with depressing frequency. But I could be wrong-I don't go there. It's useless in any event. Normal parents don't engage in the crap we've endured and that's "Just the way it is...Some things will never change..."
Use my comments any way you want.
If I'm warm here, you all must be dying right about now. Pray the Power Grid which is deteriorating faster than an ice cream cone in the mid-Atlantic States doesn't give it up for the next week or two. I'd be looking for a walk-in cooler as well if I lived in that!
PS: Thanks for the Neil Young's "Rockin' In The Free World." I made my rounds with visits to the vets yesterday and CCR's Fortunate Son, Bad Moon, Run Through The Jungle, Who'll Stop The Rain as well as The Stones and Neils Rockin', Helpless among many others were on repeat. Their grandkids took their Teac Reel to Reels and put them on CDs for them.
Then I came home and here it was again!
Damn, I'm OLD.

Lisa said...

That is a pretty lilac.

They're psychopaths who had kids who go on forums on the internet to bitch about it with other assholes who had kids. Assholes.

Adela Alba said...

I read it the other day before you posted about it here. I went to look for it again after reading your blog but it's indeed gone.

Anonymous said...

Yep, these narc parents sound like 7 year olds in their writings. There is no maturity whatsoever... They all deserve each other....

vicariousrising said...

TW, you make some brilliant points here. You're so right about the bond being so primal. It is so ridiculous that they try to say we want them to be perfect. Perfect was on the table? I would have gone for marginally less crazy or maybe "slightly supportive" over what I got. Perfect? Dang. I should've aimed higher.

Actually, back in the late 90s, I wrote to my mother, "I wish you could be more supportive of me for once" after she'd just smashed to bits my excitement over some rather significant writing achievements.

This "disloyal" comment of mine justified her refusing to speak to me for almost 7 years and raking family members who didn't join in her snub over the coals. She later tossed the "expects me to be perfect" accusation out then too. It's such an exaggeration, it shows that they have broken gauges of acceptable parenting.

She only started speaking to me again because I came out as an alcoholic in recovery, and she accounted all my bad daughterness on my father's genes.

Tundra Woman said...

Maybe it's time to bring up the "S" ("support") word again!

q1605 said...

is for suck it bitch!