Saturday, September 8, 2012

My Borderline Ex.


People that are leaving relationships with a narcissist hold the patent on being damaged by the personality disordered. No Acon could ever understand the intense suffering that comes from a romantic relationship with the personality disordered. Or so they would have us think. 

Their KGB like phobia of outsiders confines them in a microcosm of Orwellian empowerment slogans and heal speak.  No Acon I know has a problem with those guys. But questioning their fearless leader leads to nothing but attacks from them.

They are sure that being raised by a narcissist, and dating a narcissist are mutually exclusive experiences. Their fresh insult trumps our ages old damage by miles. 

As if we each have a life time allotment of one bat shit loon. They seem to think Acon's have punched their one loon to a life ration card and we are martyr hogs.

 For them it's exciting to turn a failed relationship into camaraderie. They generate a cacophony of woo hoo's and you go girls.  And when they find some one else to date, they will thank everybody and take their leave. 

I am happy for them.  

But the implications that adult children of a narcissistic are over indulged and irrelevant doesn't do us any favors. For us this is a life time journey. There will be no commencement. 

And we can't go to mom's dot com and shop for another. 

It's great that having a narcissistic parent inoculates me against the affliction of  romantic entanglements with a  disordered woman. Because that would make me crazy.
Oh wait. 
I didn't date a personality disordered woman.
I married one.

Yes Virginia, having a loon for a parent tends to make us attract even more loons. I am flypaper for crazy women.  Hell if I know why we lead with our chin when we walk into a romance with a loon. Maybe it's because the sex is so good in the beginning. 
If there is one good thing you can say about a crazy person, it's that they.......well... they fuck like a crazy person.
By the time they start showing signs of insanity outside of the bedroom, it's too late baby. It's too late.
They are living with you, pregnant, borrowed your life savings, or in some way have become an intractable part of your life. I won't wax poetic about my first wife. I'll make my inventory direct and to the point.

Wife #1
*Was screwing every one that could achieve an erection.
*Focused mainly on screwing a guy that used to be our neighbor.
*Rat-holed $30,000 dollars and bought a bass boat and parked it at his house.
*The same boat he bragged to me about while I watched him wash it oblivious to the fact it was half mine.
*Had numerous credit cards in my name that were billed to her office.
*After we filed for divorce she charged them all to the hilt and fobbed them off on me
*Took the house
*Took the cars except my work truck
*Took all the savings
* Hit me in the head with a Mason jar, put me in the hospital for 3 days, told nurses I fell and hit my head
*Took MY Pembroke Corgi. Actually had it written in the decree.
*Somehow managed to even jack my frequent flier miles
*Eventually ended up with a cabin we had in East Texas
*She is now my mothers bestess friend and I wouldn't be surprised if she is in my mothers will
* Talked me into getting a vasectomy when she had to have been on birth control because our neighbor was banging her. (explain that to me for extra credit)
*Won't get her last name changed back to her own because my last name is almost the same as Clint Blacks wife.
*(not even kidding about her last name) 
*Won fights by calling 911 and calmly waiting for an answer, then screaming like I was chopping off her head.
*Must have been fucking my attorney because he let her get away with all this shit.
*There are hundreds of lessor mind fucks. Too numerous to mention.

*** To be fair to this chick, she always held a decent job and brought her half to the table. But like my mother, when things got boring they went whoring***

My first wife. 
On our wedding night
And last month 
Why did I let her have it all? This was in 1999. If I had not signed off we would still be doing battle in court.
But it was worth every penny to get out of there with my life. 
So people who date narcissists? You guys don't have it as bad as you think. Acon's get the worst of both worlds. 

* This post is based on way more than the limited interactions I have had with After Narcissistic Abuse site. I have watched groups like ANA elevate themselves as an exclusive club beyond Acon's for a couple of years. I just thought they might want to know that on the heels of some pretty fucked up significant others, Acon's still view the relationships with our parents as the one that defines our fucked up interface with the world.  


vicariousrising said...

Damn, I wish I had my computer with me to better address this post. Stuck on my iPhone, which makes it harder for me to be all eloquent and shit.

But, Q, this post hits on so much truth, I'm a little floored.

For now, though, since my brain is in the gutter, I'm stuck on what you wrote about how crazy people fuck. Gee, maybe I'm ok in bed. Lmfao.

Hormones. I'm taking that defense. :)

Charity said...

Haha, Vi!

I don't even want to open my personal can of worms about the personality disordered men I've attracted like flypaper over the years. Until I finally got some GOOD therapuetic help for my insane PTSD-inducing childhood, I kept reliving it over and over and over and over. My life was a soap opera. You know the one, "As the Stomach Turns."

With the common denominator being ME, I thought it was All My Fault, I was somehow bringing out the worst in people, making them want to abuse me. N's love that excuse.

The truth: I was taught during my formative years that I had no value. I was taught to accept the unacceptable. I was needy and broken and an emotional basket case, with zero self-esteem. Guess what: the vast majority of normal healthy people are ~ surprise! ~ not attracted to needy broken emotional basket cases with zero self-esteem. But, Users and Abusers seek us out like prey. Especially if you know how to f**k like a horny bunny. (I'm a great-grandmother-to-be, I use the Miss Manners Method of spelling the F word.)

Each abusive unloving relationship left me even more broken than I was before. Vicious Cycle, that was my love life. I mean, my hate life.

I should write a book. Oh wait, I am doing that. ;)

q1605 said...

I've never brought the bitch up. But going to the "After Narcissistic Abuse" site so much and seeing how they all have the vapors over their bastard boyfriend's it dawned on me that I have always left out my crazy ass first wife.
She was the one who pursued me.
We were married for 12 years and I don't see how I lived through it.
I don't even think about her now.
But for that time she had me in a stranglehold.

q1605 said...

VR. I hope you come back and be eloquent and shit. I am counting on it.

Tundra Woman said...

Essentially, we tied up with our bat-shit crazy parents in different packaging. When your bar for crazy is set so low (if it exists at all) it'd require an archeological dig to find it, is it any wonder we couldn't tell the difference between a "keeper" and a catch-and-release?

Jonsi said...

Well. I was GOING to write a post about how much worse off I am than everyone else because I dated a narcissist. But now...

I mean, I think everyone who has a relationship with a narcissist is going to get mind-fucked. But having the benefit of coming from a pretty "normal" (read: sane, loving, genuine, relatively low on the dysfunction scale) family, I also know that my experiences pale in comparison to anyone who had narc parents, care-takers, and siblings. It's just...not the same.

What I have gleaned from my experiences has helped me bring a lot of (I think) useful information for my husband - mostly because I learned so much about what it takes to be victimized and how manipulators choose and "beat" their targets. Because of those experiences (as an adult) I was able to point out what was happening to DH from his FOO.

But I think when you're raised in bat shit crazy, the denial is VERY very deep. And that's not something that any of the rest of us narc-daters can touch.

Jonsi said...

Not sure if that made sense.

What I'm saying is that I am very aware of the fact that my (short, in the scheme of things) stint having relationships with narcissists isn't the same as having familial relationships with narcissists.

At the end of the day, I could go out and pick a new boyfriend or a new roommate. DH can't pick out a new set of parents, or step-parents, or siblings. And though I have emotional scars from spending some excessive time with narcissists at points in my life; I also have the benefit of having come from a loving & supportive background. My self-esteem took a hit, but DH really didn't have much to begin with. I've always known who I was, I just lost some of that along the way; DH never even had the chance for his Self to develop.

Those are just some of the major differences between the "Jonsis" and the ACoNs of the world.

I do have some pretty good insights about all of it though. Maybe just because I'm so observant and always have been and I don't like leaving the whys unasked.

jessie said...

Great post Q.

And man, a moms-dot-com site would be awesome. Or maybe, MomsRUs. Or maybe a place where you can trade yours in for a newer model.

Linda Tremaine said...

I agree! Great post Q. I couldn't help chuckling over your observations over Narcissistic abuse forms. There's a lot of truth there! No, I would not discount for a moment the pain and anguish over having a bat shit crazy parent. My dad was an alcoholic and my mom was diagnosed a bi-polar, paranoid schizophrenic. Maybe that doesn't qualify me to say much. I think I have had several NDPs at this point, but I'm in pretty good shape all things considered and doing well. No pity here, wanted or welcome! I think actually, the damage must be worse on your end! Write on guy! I'm glad you got out that marriage to your ex! Good for you! You sound like a survivor! Stay strong! Best wishes, Linda

q1605 said...

I don't know if my sense of being slighted on those relationship sites is real or imagined. I have never been active on one. I was on an unmoderated Yahoo Acon site and was asked to leave by a woman that was not an Acon but was up in arms because her boyfriend didn't sufficiently appreciate her scrape-booking the arc of their relationship. I have noticed that Acon's are like that midget on poltergeist that walked around yelling "all welcome all welcome" but dealing with someone with relationship experience only and they tend to have a very gushy exterior but very short fuse They snap and start pecking people at the drop of a hat.
I would have to say with the exception of Jonsi.
I thought at least one of your parents was some sort of narc. I just thought you had tamed them enough to deal mainly with your husbands family.
Don't worry Jonsi. All welcome!
I hate making distinctions when people are trying to find a sympathetic ear.
I always thought my mother was this eccentric leaning to bitchy bitch woman. My first wife was what drove me into book store to find that book on borderlines,"I hate you please don't leave me"
I saw more things that made me think about my mother then I did wife #1.
But we got divorced and I never thought any more about it until I moved in with my mother.
Phew! Then it was Katy bar the door.
I think you know where the rest of that went.
Look at what TW said. We just went out and repackaged out parent.
Being raised by a narc is like being raised by wolves and then parachuted into a formal dinner and getting chastised because you don't know which fork to use.
Jessie. Maybe Momstop. The mom locker.

Tundra Woman said...

Jonsi, You have been A WEALTH of info for me, particularly when you discussed your temporary estrangement from your parents and what your parents DID NOT DO in response. I combed that Post repeatedly-it was a veritable gold mine of facts regarding what happens when a young person is experiencing the normal period of differentiation from their parents, striking out on their own and the inevitable bumps along the way for the young adult with a non-Narc FOO/Parents. Was it painful for you and the parents? Oh yes, of course. But your very wise parents recognized as much as they loved you UNCONDITIONALLY, you needed to figure it out yourself and did NOT require their "Intervention." Realistically, it's far easier to remediate our screw-ups when we're young and single than when we're married, encumbered with a couple of kids, mortgages and all the trappings of adult life.
Did your parents use this "opportunity" as a battering ram to reinforce your battered self-esteem/confidence as a result of a Narc relationship, to crow about how they KNEW you'd "Never amount to anything"/"Made your bed and lie in it"/become "BFF" with your ex/sig the ex on you IRL or by continued mind-fuckery, reminding you at every turn of your horrid N-encounter? Hell no.
At the end of the day IMO it's about SHARE, not COMPARE. And I've found your voice of reason, of "Both Sides" refreshing but more importantly, informative. I wonder if you had not had the experience with the N boyfriend if you would have been as astute regarding the tactics as you are regarding DH and the N FOO dynamics (not that I'd wish an N relationship on any one.) But it certainly has informed your thinking and in turn, informed the rest of us beyond what you can even imagine: Thank you. I know it's not been easy but love heals and unconditional love heals unconditionally. But that's just my experience.

Anonymous said...


...."being raised BY wolves" and being raised FOR wolves!

Here's a poem by Lois Hayna, who is 99 years old and seems familiar with our brand of mothering:


My mother surely knew the wolf
lurked along that path. She had to
know the world's filled with wolves, that their special habitat
is a forest where little girls
walk alone.
She dressed me in the color of
raw meat, she filled my basket
with warm-scented goodies
and sent me specifically
into the woods. A long way
into the woods. For years,
I believed it was wolves
that I had to beware.

Texarkana Friend

q1605 said...

Jonsi. I want to echo TW's words. Lisette of House of Mirrors sort of brought me out into the blog-o-sphere and you were one of the first to make me feel welcome out in this new venture. I owe you and upsi and others my whole existence here.

q1605 said...

Texarkana Friend.
Supremely cool poem.
I think if we don't ever talk to any one about any of this we'll just fade away.
It's good to hear from you.
Don't be a stranger.

Jonsi said...

Q - "I thought at least one of your parents was some sort of narc. I just thought you had tamed them enough to deal mainly with your husbands family."

You're usually right on the money, but in this (one!) case, my friend, you were wrong. As far as I can tell there are no narcissists in my immediate family. My father's family, however, was supremely dysfunctional, and I've been hearing/learning about their dysfunctions my whole life (not excessively so, but enough to totally get the gyst of what dysfunction tastes like.) My father is an adult child of a schizophrenic father and an enabling/shaming mother. Neither were narcissists, but definitely had their fair share of emotional issues, which my father lived through and has spent the rest of his life dealing with. The good news was that he worked hard at beating his dysfunctions and, as such, was able to talk about all of it with his own kids. He certainly broke the code of silence in his family. He has two sisters. One made it out with him. The other...not so much.

Anyway, my FOO has dysfunction, but none so terrible as narcissism (in my opinion).

I think I've been so aware of narcissism because I studied (and continue to study) endlessly about manipulation. And if nothing else, narcs are the BEST manipulators. After having been in a couple of relationships with manipulative people, I was ALL about learning everything I needed to know to stop that cycle from repeating itself.

Jonsi said...

I think one of the questions I still haven't answered for myself is why, if I came from such a stable, loving foundation, did I fall pray to narcissists? Shouldn't I have been able to avoid people like that, since I grew up with a hard-core truth-telling mother and a tirelessly crusading father? One might think so.

My theory, in it's initial stages, points to my lack of esteem as a reason for my falling prey to narcs. If I could develop a formula for avoiding them, it would probably look something like: self-esteem + knowledge = narc-repellent.

Jonsi said...

TW - "I wonder if you had not had the experience with the N boyfriend if you would have been as astute regarding the tactics as you are regarding DH and the N FOO dynamics (not that I'd wish an N relationship on any one.) But it certainly has informed your thinking..."

I think it took those experiences to get me to see these people (and all people, really) much more clearly. It also took those relationships for me to really build the rock-solid self-esteem I now have. (Okay, occasionally, I do have moments where there's a chink in the armor too. I wish nothing bothered me or hurt my feelings, but I'm not entirely sure that's really possible, even if I developed the highest self-esteem known to man). But anyway, I'm fairly certain that it would have taken some narc relationship somewhere for me to really understand these types of people. And I'm glad it was just a boyfriend and a friend and not DH's parents. I shudder to think the damage that would have been done from his FOO if I hadn't been as aware of this shit as I am now.

I'm hijacking this thread, aren't I? Poop.

Well, just quick then: I got my experience points and now I'm spending them on helping DH out of his own mess. And I'm going to need every experience point I achieved to get us through it. So in a way, I'm glad I went through that shit. Now I can help protect my husband and kids from the rest of the monsters.

One point for team ACoN!

Jonsi said...

One last thing: Texarcana Friend, that poem was kick ass.

Jonsi said...

Q - " were one of the first to make me feel welcome out in this new venture..."

I didn't know that. I think that deserves another:


I sort of consider myself part of that clan. Even though I'm not an ACoN. I you guys. I can be your cheerleader or something. Or...mascot. Oh! No no no. Even better: Attorney!

Hell yeah. I'll bring all the evidence to court, AND examine it, AND convince the judge that the Narcs need to be imprisoned for their crimes. Schwing!

Jonsi said...


By "one last thing" I really meant, "a couple more things."

Tundra Woman said...

You ARE "part of the clan"-don't ever doubt that.
And a huge welcome to Texarcana; just think, no internet, no "self-help" books, just a lifetime of experience and not afraid to speak out against societal norms long before it was even considered. We kept this stuff shut up inside ourselves and thought we were alone. We didn't attend the "funeral" because we held our own personal one years before.
There's room for all our GENUINE voices.
q, I thought wife #1 developed lock jaw on your Wedding night? That picture must have been taken the morning OF, eh? ;)

q1605 said...

Jonsi. Mi blog es su blog.
Hi jack away. It's not like I have never gone nuts over at your place.
I was getting afraid that I was being perceived as being divisive.
As far as the Acon vs. relationship N exposure.
I just find a lot of judgement from the relationship people and not so much from Acon's.

It's understandable. A person who is used to getting consistent and honest responses from normal people are devastated when they find this person they are seriously altering their future for has been using them for some big laugh.
But by and large it's not a way of life for them.
Sometimes Acon's remind me of Marvin the Robot on Hitch Hikers guide to the galaxy.
Not the movie but the BBC series.

Tw. Shaaaaadyup!

Tundra Woman said...


Elena K said...

Yep. From my teens through my early 20's, life was a revolving door of bizarre and unsuitable relationships. I didn't quite realize just how extravagantly bizarre and unsuitable because - as Tundra Woman put it - my bar for crazy was set really, really low. :p

Finally I decided to swear off all men until I got my head together, because even I caught on that this was pattern, eventually.

Luckily, it worked and by the time I met my husband I was in in a better state mentally and emotionally.

But thank god I didn't marry anyone before that. Don't even want to think about it...

Calibans Sister said...

OK. CZ, Jonsi, Upsi, Q, Vi, TW--you all, and Anna Vicarious, all of you are the reasons I put myself out into the blogosphere. I'd always avoided it, believing that the hundreds of books I'd read on psych and dysfunctional families would eventually get me where I needed to be. But it wasn't until I googled around and found your blogs, read your threads, posts, comments to each other, and saw the experience, wisdom and help you give each other, that I dared to hang my ass out to dry. Somehow the real-time conversations we have help move me, and all of us, forward. We really are a community of souls trying to recover. So Jonsi, mi blog su blog; Q, ditto, TW, ditto, CZ, Upsi, ditto. Double-dog ditto.

Charity said...

What an awesome comment thread. This conversation is Golden. You guys are Golden. Every one of you.

All it needs to reach nirvana perfection is for vicariousrising to come back and be all eloquent and shit.

Makes me proud to be an ACoN surviving.

Jonsi, I too thought you had at least one N iin your Family of Origin, your astute wisdom re your hubby's N Foo is astounding.

q1605 said...

It'll even be more awesome when Jonsi shows up in her cheer-leading outfit.

upsi said...

I've never been one to jockey hard in the "I-had-it-worse" pissing contest of narcissistic abuse, but point very well made, Q. "And we can't go to mom's dot com and shop for another." Goddamn if we wouldn't take a spin down the aisles of that fantasy.

I still remember your rockin good time comments when you first appeared on the scene. I'm so glad you write here and pretty much hands down enjoy everything. So yeah, I'll add my two cents to this lovefest.

"Acon's still view the relationships with our parents as the one that defines our fucked up interface with the world." Unfortunate as it may be, this is what we built our lives on. This is just how it is. No do-over. No healing re-do. Just damage control. So the whole thing is just the degree to which your existence has been over-determined by crazy fucks. It's all a matter of degree.

I'm glad to know you all. It makes it just that much easier to keep going.


Adela Alba said...

Hm, suddenly my mother's love of wolves takes on a whole new meaning after reading that poem.

Somehow, I dodged having any serious romantic relationships with narcissists. Not that I dated much or anything, though. Still, I consider very lucky I didn't end up with a crazy boyfriend or husband and instead have a wonderful one!

I've always felt anyone who goes around parading how they "have it worse" just wants attention and at best hasn't matured beyond being a teenager.

q1605 said...

This is sort of an extension of my ANA dust up. If you could read the comments this other blogger got from them after this person asked that her writing be attributed to her you would understand why they bother me so much.
Everything from you've had your whole life to get over so get over it.
To we didn't like your "work" anyway.
They didn't like it so much they never pulled it.

Bess said...


Kara said...

I had never thought of Acons being like Marvin, he has always reminded me of my brother: "brain the size of a planet" and all that... but then again, he is also an Acon, even if he's not aware of it and might never be. (Funnily enough I have a draft post about my brother and the title is Marvin)

I do prefer the BBC series to the film, except for Zaphod, Sam Rockwell was much better than the BBC counterpart.
You can just imagine what a field day Douglas Adams would have had if he'd known about narcs...

q1605 said...

Sam Rockwell did a smash up job. I think that people on the relationship sights see us like that. They know they have to fall out of love with the person that jacked them over and get on with new love. Why can't we.
They seem to not think that our parents dog us the rest of our days.
Did you know that if you added an O to your name you could use it to spell okra?

Kara said...

Hahaha, no I didn't. Wouldn't that be a cool name if I was a character in a book, say, "The Acon's Guide to the Narcissistic Galaxy"?
And yes, parents like ours are like a life sentence for a crime we didn't commit.

q1605 said...

And yes, parents like ours are like a life sentence for a crime we didn't commit.

Yeah. I am running out of points to make on my blog but not the desire to make them.
I wish I could establish a tour of Narcissism in my old town and take people down her street and stop and
tell them yes and here is where the withered hag lives and be able to see her curtains flutter a bit as she freaks out inside.
Then drive them by the house where she whacked the guy. It's only a couple of miles over. Where my dad bit it would be too far and there are house built over it now.
But I want to ride her ass until I hear dirt hitting that box.