Monday, September 3, 2012

Shame and guilt.


I commented on Upsi's latest post about being way too angry to get tangled up in my mother's guilt trap.  Having a homicidal maniac for a mother doesn't exempt me from these feelings. It just makes it easier to avoid all the second guessing about no contact and saves me from wasting thought on reconciliation.
But when I think of my mother alone and fending for herself, it makes me want to at least stick my head in her door wearing black face paint and a pair of panty hose over my head.
I won't be doing that unless I want to snuff it.
Suicide by mother.
Because there is a  %100 percent chance she'll blow my brains out and use her back up piece as a drop gun.
Even if she knows it's me.
Especially if she knows it's me.

I am not happy about the way this story ended. But it went on way too long.
I must have thought that indulging this bitch my entire life might have bought me a slice of normal interaction with something that resembled a mother at least one time before I die.
If I have any guilt, it is the guilt one might feel ignoring an injured wolverine by the side of the road. You may want to leave it some water and food, but you know that trying to pick it up and take it to a vet will translate into those horrible rabies shots that they poke directly into your stomach.
My anger is in coming to terms with never having had a mother. And understanding that I will never have a mother.



“The more I thought about it, the more I realized that this absolution [forgiveness] was really another form of denial: ‘If I forgive you, we can pretend that what happened wasn't so terrible.’ I came to realize that this aspect of forgiveness was actually preventing a lot of people from getting on with their lives.
— “Responsibility can go only one of two places: outward, onto the people who have hurt you, or inward, into yourself. So you may forgive your parents but end up hating yourself all the more in exchange.
— “Clients all too often discovered that the empty promise of forgiveness had merely set them up for bitter disappointment. Some of them experienced a rush of well-being, but it didn't last because nothing had really changed in the way they felt or in their family interactions.” 

Dr.Susan Forward......."Toxic parents" found on, http://narcissistschild.blogspot.com/

What she took from us makes me furious.
What she gave back was less than zero.
I won't cling to the thing that destroyed my family.
I won't be indebted to a person that barely spoke to me.
I know her for what she is.
And I'll be staying out of range of small arms fire.
.











31 comments:

vicariousrising said...

I found myself saying, "you don't get to tell me who I am" between clenched teeth more than a few times the past couple weeks. Anyone trying to nose their way into "owning" me will eventually find their way outside my circle.

Although I have to admit, my tolerance for narcissists probably is higher than a normal person's. I was arguing with my child, of all people, that if he thought his father was a control freak, my kid had no idea of what one really looked like (and yes, I should've been smacked upside the head for taking that line of argument).

Tundra Woman said...

The Barbarian? "Alone?" "Fending for herself?"
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!!
Tell ya what: If you're that worried, send some of that yellow sticky fly paper tape to one of her neighbors, ask 'em to hang it up in her place and let you know if it ever gets filled up.
Maybe, just maybe then it'll be safe enough for you to call the cops for a "Wellness Check." About six months after you receive notification of The Fly Paper Test if it's consistently above 90F. If it's below, wait at least a year.
When the mail box has no more room for the mail person to hang bags off the flag, the "lawn"/hay is taller than the roof line, the power has been turned off for the very last time-"We promise" (according to the power company) the place is being foreclosed on for 5 yrs.back taxes, the moon is in the Seventh House and Jupiter is aligned with Mars, maybe then. But I doubt it.
Otherwise, just stick your head back in the paint shaker: As I recall she made a very viable threat to shoot it off the last time you were around. 'member? I do.
TW

q1605 said...

Ha! Flypaper. That reminds me of the summer I spent there. It'll have to wait.
Don't worry. I ain't going soft on you. You'll notice that I said I hate how it ended. Cuz end it has.
There is no other way. I've only told you about the NICE letters I sent to her.
I am going to work something up on my bridge burning program of no contact, no return, and post it.
I'll never even drive down her street again much less reconcile.
Every body was on the guilt band wagon and guess I want to put my two cents in.
I hate that fucking bitch. I hated her when I didn't even know I hated her. I will always hate her.
She's always hated me. So were even.

Anonymous said...

She has never fended for herself.


Sis

Kara said...

TW is right. My experience with Ns is that the minute you resign from the "unpaid servant" position they move on to the next unsuspecting victim on the list. The speed at which they do this is utterly astonishing.
I liked it that you called it "the guilt trap", because that is really what it is. A trap designed to keep you bounded to their whims for life. Your two cents have been invaluable in this process.Thanks for helping me to "see" this.
I've had some many lightbulb moments these last two weeks that I'm starting to feel like a pinball machine.
I think you'd like to know that "Kara has left the guilt bandwagon" ;)

q1605 said...

It seems like the crazier the parent the slicker the manipulation.
These aren't nebbish mothers trying to get their kids to dress warm.
They go for throat.
But its subtle.
It's instinct for them.
They always find the loose thread to pick until the whole thing unravels.

upsi said...

I've been doubting myself a lot lately. It would be easier if there were no good memories at all, but I do have good memories with my family. I wish I could just hate them and be done with thinking about them. I wish they were one dimensionally evil and I could just never doubt myself. Not that it would be easier to deal with, it would be easier not to doubt myself. My mom is about as covert as they come.

q1605 said...

If you read this comment I added a quote from the book Toxic parents that may help.
My mother had a subtle affect when that served her purpose. But her legal problems will always be shining like a beacon that screams sociopath.
Now and forever.
Whether she was found guilty or not.
They remind me of the cheating spouse that does it well enough you can never catch them. But are sloppy enough that you know they are up to no good.
It makes you want to pull your hair out.

upsi said...

I got into a little dustup in Dr. McBride's private FB group for DoNMs about forgiveness. What a load of donkey balls. There were these newbs preaching about forgiveness is a gift you give yourself and hating on somebody who disagreed for being angry and actually hurting them because of their said anger. It was ugly. Whole lotta bullshit goes down in the name of forgiveness.

Anonymous said...

It's funny that it's always the people who have been hurt the most who sit around worrying about guilt and forgiveness. That kind of stuff never crosses the Ns' minds. The way I see it, if I feel bad over anything she did to me, then I am continuing her job which was to make me suffer. The guilt is a trap, it's like bait on a fish hook.

Sis

q1605 said...

The way I feel about her is getting very topical. There is just too many horrendous actions from her to not know she is a sociopath.
I would rather piss on an electric fence that to talk to her.

upsi said...

very wise, Q's sis. I have no doubt my mother spends zero time feeling guilty. I should take her lead on that one.

Anonymous said...

What is ironic is that to her growing a pot plant is an offense that should never be forgiven or forgotten. But killing someone or destroying everyones' lives is just find and dandy, in fact it should be immediately forgotten and never mentioned.

Sis

q1605 said...

That's because YOU were the one growing the dope you dope growing king pin.
Ask her she'll tell you.
HAHAHAHAHAHHA
I sat right in front of her and said.......are you listening to the words coming out of my mouth?
I did it.
It was me.
Well whatever!
No not what ever. It was me.
She didn't want to hear it.

Anonymous said...

*fine and dandy, lol

upsi, so true, take their lead. They have never spent a moment on feeling guilty or any of that. I will not invest more time and energy into a relationship than the other person does.

Sis

Anonymous said...

Q, yes she wants her scapegoats. It seems like a really important role in her games. If the usual one isn't around she just creates another one. If she blames other people for what she did then she has no reason to take responsibility for her own actions and can live in denial forever. So then she trains everyone around her to either take blame or to never mention what she does (because then you are disloyal and will be shunned). What a load of crap. It only works if she can get people to buy into it and play the game.

Sis

q1605 said...

Where she fucked up with me was dumping me off at grannies. I could have been her stepford child if she had nailed it down then.
By the time she considered bringing back on line I just looked at her like she grew a new head.
Sorry honey.
It's sex drugs and rock and roll.

Anonymous said...

She under estimated your ability to have a life without her. There is a great web site about how N's have co-N's around them. Similar to co-dependents. The co-N is trained to meet the N's every need, of course the co-N isn't allowed to have a life. You escaped her web too long and the poison wore off.

Sis

Anonymous said...

Was musing about guilt and all that at dinner and I realized that we should feel relief that we can feel guilt or any type of feeling like that, it means we are not a sociopath or an N. It means you're human! So if I feel any sort of feeling that the N's can't feel, I'm going to give myself some credit for it, lol.

Sis

q1605 said...

The Barbarian had feelings. She felt like doing whatever she pleased whenever it pleased her.
Upsi. I saw the thread you are speaking of.
Some people can't stand up to healthy debate.
Not confrontation.
Not a a slingfest.
Just a healthy exchange of ideas.
Nope. It's all about healing and soothing and rapping your way to a a path of self actualization.
Listen up bitch.(not you) My window for healing opened and closed about 20 years ago.
If I take any prisoners now, it'll only be so I can torture them later.

Charity said...

What upsi said:

"I've been doubting myself a lot lately. It would be easier if there were no good memories at all, but I do have good memories with my family. I wish I could just hate them and be done with thinking about them. I wish they were one dimensionally evil and I could just never doubt myself. Not that it would be easier to deal with, it would be easier not to doubt myself. My mom is about as covert as they come."

Ditto. To all of that.

I have a situation with my momster that someday when I am not too tired and ditzy to think straight, I would like to ask you lovely wise people for your opinions on. This is not a recent nor a pressing situation, I am NC, have been for several years, and intend to remain so. But like upsi said, there were some things that weren't ALL bad, yes, even with my Malignant Narcissist Momster going to such evil lengths as trying to gas us all to death, sitting on my husband's lap, teklling him it's right to beat me up if I don't do what he wants since God made him the head of the house, and etc etc etc.

However ~ there were a few moments with my momster that were just so totally out of her usually evil character, and I remember those moments from time to time and I wonder: What The H Was That All About?

But my head is too fuzzy from exhaution and pain meds at the moment to explain it coherently, so I won't even try. We just got back last night from driving 1,200 miles in 2 and a half days to see my awesome daughter and give her a car she so urgently needed. We bought her a preowned but classy looking and mechanically sound VW Paasat with some of the hail damage insurance money we got when the sky fell here a couple of months ago and baseball to softball-sized hail did over $22,000 to our property. Thank God for GEICO! Who knew something so good could come out of something so freaky.

This was one of the best visits with my daughter ever, we talked and talked and WOW I am so grateful to be the mom of such an awesome young woman! I am rich with love.

Then my aunt, my momster's only sibling, called me last night. We had a good talk, but... there's another situation I would love to ask you wonderful wise fellow ACONs about, sometime when I can think clearer. My aunt ~ is she an N, or isn't she?

Meanwhile, I'm glad you all are here. It's sad knowing I'm not the only one to have had a hateful abusive crazymaking gaslighting unloving scary momster like mine, but it's also helpful to know that I'm not the only one, you know?

I fell down the stairs when leaving the hotel suite where hubby and I visited with my daughter and her husband-to-be, 2 days ago. I had wrapped our dog's leash around my waist because both my hands were full of bags. Our normally sedate fat getting old Cattle Dog suddenly decided to RUN down the stairs, and so down I tumbled, dropping bags all the way, and desperately twisting around trying to grab the banister to keep from landing on the dog. I managed, barely, to avoid landing on her or hurting her, but man ~ I am such a ditz. Too bad it wasn't caught on video, it would surely have been good for a laugh.

With my sore twisted muscles and bruises, and my still-healing infected dry socket from my recent dental surgery, I'm a bit of a mess right now. My hubby, a big bad former US Marine, got a torn cuticle on his thumb recently which he says hurts like a papercut. He keeps whining about it. Finally I told him I wish I could trade my infected dry socket and my head-to-toe aches from my tumble down the stairs, for his little bitty torn cuticle.

Said my funny hubby: "THIS IS WHAT THEY DO TO TORTURE PEOPLE!"

I barely made it to the bathroom, I laughed so hard. It feels good to laugh, that's why I wanted to share this with you guys.

Muh.

Kara said...

Upsi's and Charity's comments about memories got me thinking... I don't have any good memories, I don't have any bad memories either. I never suffered the horrific abuse that some other bloggers have, but I don't recall good times either. My mother was always busy doing who knows what (I was in my bedroom reading books so I couldn't tell you what she was doing), if I ever attempted to be in the kitchen with her she'd say: "get out there's no room", my father, when he was home, sat on the sofa watching tv, and at mealtimes he just stared blankly through his glass. I don't remember being upset as a child about this. It was all I knew. When I left home in my early twenties they did their thing and I did mine. I didn't miss them and I don't think they missed me either. It was only when I got married that all of sudden they remembered they had a daughter somewhere and they wanted to put hooks all over me.
Not much to miss really...

Calibans Sister said...

Upsi, Charity, et al: Unlike Q, and like Upsi, I have some very good memories. My NMs "abuse" was usually very subtle. Mild disdain, neglect, dismissal. Simply not caring. Acting like she did, but really, not. A lifetime of that wears one down, to the point where when she does things that really are outrageous, there's no storage of "good will" in me anymore to offset her behavior. I just ran out of fuse. Period.
Q, you are still trying to wrap your head around the crazy person who gave birth to you. You'll never get there. Thank God you have your Sis, and you have each other. If you were/are a graphic artist, I think the Life of a Barbarian would make a fantastic graphic novel. Oh well. Something to think about. Maybe you can do one online, a much longer version of the kinds of pastiches you do on your posts?

q1605 said...

My mother was always orchestrating her next feat of derring-do so unless she needed me to lie for her she left me alone. Her needing me to catch her back actually made her be nice to me more often than not. I didn't like her expecting me to lie to my father. But he always went straight to the source and didn't drag me into things. The two of them kept things in perpetual turmoil. It was the late 60's and early 70's and I was a teen age boy so if I disappeared for all day and part of the night no one noticed. So I stayed gone until I got too hungry or someone came and got me.
After my fathers death I lived with sis until Christmas break and then moved in with my grandmother. Pastiches? I've got some cashews.

Charity said...

Kara and Cal's Sis, your comments re parents who weren't ever horrifically abusive but who just didn't care, or who only seemed to fake caring ~ I think that hurts just as bad as the horrific abuse. Here's why I think that: after being "groomed" by my parents to accept abuse, I married, at age 16, a guy who probably beat me somewhere between 50 - 100 times in our 3 1/2 year marriage. He also cheated on me with anything that moved, females, males, my mother. Plus there was daily emotional/verbal abuse, too.

Why did I stay so long? I had ZERO self-esteem, thanks to Malignant N-momster and N-multiple personality disordered dad. I believed the basturd when he told me I "drove" him to beat me with my neediness, whininess, tears, depression, laziness, etc. I also believed him when he said he "had" to cheat on me because I "wasn't woman enough" for him.

I finally found the backbone to leave when he beat me in front of our then-2-year-old child, and left me unconscious. I woke up on the kitchen floor with my poor little boy patting my face and sobbing "Mama wake up!" In 2 days I had bought a car, rented a tiny place, gotten a job, and was out of there. That's what the Mama Tiger in my heart could do, even when I was otherwise so beat down that when people used me as a doormat, my response was to apologize for being in the way of where they wanted to stomp.

I later married the man I left 12 years ago. This guy never raised his voice to me, not one time, in all our years together. He never cursed me out, never hit me, never cheated on me, never abused me in any tangible way.

He just did not care about me, is all. Not even a little. I was, at best, a sex toy to him, no more important than an inflatable doll or a centerfold in a magazine that never talks or changes her facial expression.

I was so unhappy with him! I found myself wishing he would go ahead and have an affair, or verbally or even physically abuse me, so I would feel justified in leaving him! I didn't think it was a good enough reason to leave someone just because he never talked to me, never looked at me or spoke to me in a loving way, never treated me like I was anything special to him. I really believe I mattered less to him than a piece of furniture, or his car.

I finally left Mr. Flat Affect after we were on the Oprah Show, in June 2000. I had emailed a letter to Oprah as I was reading one of her book-of-the-month choices, called "While I Was Gone," a book about a dissatisfied wife who has "no good reason" to leave her husband, but she starts having fantasies about another man. When Oprah introduced the book she said something like "When does unfaithfulness begin? Does it begin when you first begin to THINK about having an affair?..."
(continued on next comment)

Charity said...

(continued from previous comment)
I hadn't had an affair and I did not intend to, but I HAD been fantasizing about this man I barely knew, a man who in the course of our jobs seemed to have taken a liking to me, and I felt SO HORRIBLY GUILTY just for having unfaithful thoughts! I thought I was a terrible person for fantasizing about another man when my husband had never cheated on me, never had hit me, and had never even abused me verbally (except in covert, ultra-subtle, passive-aggressive ways).... I guess I was so used to being horribly viciously abused, first by my parents and then by my first husband, that simply not being loved or cared about by my the man I was married to didn't seem like justification for even having mental fantasies of a love affair.

So I bought the book, I believe that was the only time I ever bought an Oprah recommended book, my tastes in reading are usually very different from hers ~ and as I read it I saw myself, and I felt so horribly guilty, guilt being my lifelong specialty. So as a catharsis only, I poured out my feelings in an email to Oprah... and Surprise Surprise, about 30 minutes later a producer from the Oprah Show called and asked if my then-husband and I would be on the show to discuss the book and my reaction to it. We said yes. Immediately after the taping for the show my husband turned to me and said, "I am so impressed by your willingness to be so honest about your faults in front of the whole world, so now I am going to be honest with you. You know those times when you have told me that you felt like I didn't really love you, and I always said you were wrong, I did too love you? Well, I was lying, I really didn't love you. But I do love you NOW, because I am so in awe of your willingness to bare your soul and admit your faults right on the Oprah Show."

He was smiling while he said this. He was looking at me like he really did kind of almost like me, for the first time ever.

I looked him right in the eye and said, "I'm leaving you." I was gone within a week.

Yes, it HURTS like HELL, not being cared about. Even if they fake and lie and say they DO TOO care, when they really don't, you know it deep down inside, and it HURTS. I think in some ways it is better to be treated really horribly by a parent or a spouse, because then at least you know the truth and there is no doubt.

q1605 said...

Charity. I keep telling them that it is easier to come from a total wreck of a house hold because you know it's them and not you.
I mean there is still that little bit of wonder because they gas light you so hell and back but factor that out and it's pretty clear who the loon is and it ain't you.

Charity said...

Yeah, my momster's gaslighting was so bad, it was what I call the ultimate gaslighting. She gaslighted me so bad that I'm afraid to even post or comment about it. I keep telling myself that someday I will write here about her ultimate gaslighting of me, but, I'm afraid to. I guess because I'm still a little bit gaslighted?

Augh.

I think I need to buy a copy of Throw Mama From The Train and watch it about 20 times, maybe then I'll feel better.

Charity said...

I did it, Q. Your honesty about your vicious malignant sociopath mother gave me the courage to tell the sordid story about my momster's evil projecting gaslighting of me.

q1605 said...

I hope this is a good thing. What I always say about my mother is most of her stuff was directed at other people. I still had to watch it go down but it wasn't in my face.
Nah. That's not entirely true.
But true enough.
If it's over at your place and you are OK with it I'll check it out.

Kara said...

Charity, thank you so much for sharing your story with Mr. Flat. It really helps. Doug, thanks to you too. For a long time I did think it was me and not them because it was all so subtle. Not any longer. :)