Monday, December 3, 2012

White Oleander

Jonsi's latest post continues to make me think. I would like to have a relationship with my mother. I would like to have a loving relationship with my mother. About all it would take would be to sit across the table from her, and hear her say things were pretty crazy back then. You are older now than I was back then, and you know how things can get away from you like a kite on a windy day. I should have left you kids out of it. But I didn't. And I can't change that now.
Not even that. Just admit that what I know to be true is true.
She admits to things off the cuff. I have heard her joke about the panic of having a dead guy on hand and no where to hide him. Yet, defending my self against her merciless verbal onslaught by pointing out her own lack of moral fiber gets a full on denial of all of it.
Like my analogy of getting to normalcy being a journey I just don't have a map for, my mother doesn't have the foggiest idea about how far off the beaten track she is, and even if she did, she wouldn't spend a snap of her fingers to make up anything to any one around her.
This is when she becomes NPD. As opposed to a full on bat shit sociopath.

She is so blinkered that she thinks she has us all fooled. That she can reach across the table and metaphorically slap us on the side of the head and settle back in her seat and deny she did it.
Mom, you just dinged me on the side of the head. Oh I did not~!
My ear is still ringing!
It's from all that pot you used to smoke.
She has never looked at her kids as offspring. We were the low ranking competition. Now that the rest of her world died off, we are all that she's got left to attack.
That's the only way to explain the war she waged against me and Sis the past few years.

I don't like the movie White Oleander. It's perfect until the end.
When Michelle Pfieffer could have thrown her kid under the bus, she takes the high road and stays in jail.
For those of you that believe that scenario, watch Investigation Discovery on cable. There is a segment on "Women who Kill" There is not a one of them that didn't tried to pin it on their daughter if they could get away with it.

23 comments:

mulderfan said...

I had the Japanese symbol for "dream" tattooed on my left forearm because I always thought if you don't have a dream you have nothing.

I had the same dream you have abuot my NM (not NF) but now I now that dream is nothing.

q1605 said...

MF. Have you ever worked with a person that will spend a week and hundreds of dollars to devise a system to get out of even the smallest amount of labor?
Like they should go sweep up a 10 x 20 storage closet and hours later you find it un-swept and they have a bunch of cats with feather dusters tied to their tails locked in the room and are about to throw a cage full of mice in so that the ensuing frenzy will get all the dust up?
And you don't know what to do with it. You want to fire them but they haven't been fucking off. They went around and gathered up a bunch of cats. They trapped a bunch of live mice. They been working their ass off to set this all up, but why didn't they just take a broom and go whoosh whoosh whoosh and be done with it?

q1605 said...

That's what it's like to get one of these guys to make any forward progress.

mulderfan said...

I volunteer on the Municipal Heritage Committee. Most of the members make themselves look important gathering up cats and mice while the developers bulldoze every bit of history and character out of our little town.

Then they get all pissy when I have a shot at saving one little log church. Makes them look like assholes but they didn't need my help with that!

q1605 said...

People confuse motion with action.

Tundra Woman said...

q, Do you really believe The Barbarian doesn't know how far off the path she's gone? I'm curious about this, only because I KNOW Psychob KNEW BETTER, but CHOSE to flaunt her ability to get away with all kinds of crap because (in part, depending on the situation) she cloaked herself in the label "Mother" when ever it gave her a "Get Out of Jail Free" Card. This woman was so sharp, she played every one around her up to her death, would change personas as the situation required and could do this in a heart-beat or less. EX: The cops are tying to pull her over in the car. Psychob IMMEDIATELY looks at me in the backseat, Nsis in the front and commands, "OK you kids, start crying NOW!" so she could get out of a reckless driving/speeding ticket. Her ability to size up and individual or situation, to set in motion a series of events that ensured she'd come out appearing the "Victim" (when the reality was, she was the "Victimizer") or a "Hold Harmless" persona when all hell broke loose thanks to her ACTIVE initiation of the ensuing events and subsequent disaster/pain for others.
For example, your metaphor of the planning with the cats and feather dusters: The time, energy, expense to which mine would go to NOT do the requested activity, to avoid having to perform even the most simple, straightforward task, to be held accountable despite the reality the task may well have been "Neutral" as opposed "Good" or Bad." In fact, it may well have been in HER best interest, something from which SHE would likely have benefitted. Uh uh. Not gonna happen. "Oppositional" doesn't begin to cover it.
To say she "Did not play well with others" is a true understatement. NO ONE was "allowed" to tell her what to do, period, the end. She conceptualized and operationalized so many nefarious "plots" and was able to "plan and play them" over any period of time, including YEARS.
I don't "get" the conceptualization of N's being "impetuous." Yeah, perhaps momentarily with Psychob's crazy driving for example when she was pissed (which was unpredictable, but at least one "explosion" per day of this nature) but over-all, mine was a consummate planner and actress.
So you really don't think The Barbarian was consciously aware of her behavior? These apparently "Off the cuff" disclosures-do you really think they were "Off the cuff" like her disclosure of the weapon used in the murder? Or a reflection of her ability to "plant" ideas when "backed in a corner" or to let you know she KNEW more than you did? A way of ALWAYS having the upper hand so to speak?
TW

q1605 said...

I think she knows that her way of thinking is different. But I think how far gone she really is, is lost on her. She is so eaten up with entitlement and lack of empathy that she's doesn't feel compelled to acknowledge the differential between what she has done to others, and how slighted she feels when some one gets one over on her.
She was instrumental in putting more than one man in an early grave, but she doesn't seem to see any thing wrong with that.
But when a florist charged her a delivery fee for taking flowers to a funeral home when he hadn't years before and she was livid.
The veins were poking out on her neck and she was smacking the couch with the palm of her hand.
Thing was, this was years after after the fact when she was telling me about it.
I think the decades she shaved off my fathers life and the decades she shaved off the guy she whacked would be worse.
Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuck no.
She was found not guilty so it's like it didn't happen.
It's pure entitlement. If we are too stupid to plat things to the hilt then we get what we asked for.
They really should be shot.

mulderfan said...

I've never figured out if my NF pre-planned his verbal attacks to maximize the emotional damage or he just instinctively knew how to rip my heart out and turn it into hamburger.

NM, on the other hand, is a schemer who plans ever word, sigh and hand gesture but can never quite hide the little smile. Before NC I learned how to trip her up and listen to her voice change right down to the accent. In the blink of an eye she goes from upper crust Royal Brit to tough bar maid pulling drafts at the local pub.

Actors on a stage...every fucking one of them!

q1605 said...

TW I think her blurting out about the gun was not what she wanted to say. She was in total deny deny deny mode.
My mother has the worst temper I have ever seen on a person. And this was as bad as I have seen/heard her.
But her what do you do with a recently deceased body remarks were probably for show.
This is going to sound crazy but I wish there were more people around who's parents had murdered someone.
There are more around than you would believe. But no one wants to discuss it.

q1605 said...

Yeah MF. I think it's a mix. When I first sought out companion time with women, I did what some guys think is fail proof. Which is at least have some rough draft of what I am going to say in my mind and sort of follow a loose script.
After the first time and I went down like the Hindenburg of dating, I resolved to always wing it. It's the only way I can talk to women.
I think N's mix it up.
They know where they want to end up.
They know the path to get there.
But they know if they encounter a cow flop along the way, it's best to leave the path long enough to walk around it.

q1605 said...

"In the blink of an eye she goes from upper crust Royal Brit to tough bar maid pulling drafts at the local pub."
I have to admit I do the same thing. I can be a total Texas cracker or I can be a ..........take some of the rodeo out.
But I don't do it to screw people over.
It's like if I am at your house I'll take the dishes out of the sink before I piss in it.
In my house, maybe not.

Bess said...

Q, I'm still waiting for a phone call from someone informing me bodies have been found in dad's garage or basement. I wouldn't be surprised at all, except that if he did whack someone, he wouldn't have been able to brag about it - and he loved to talk about himself.

Anonymous said...

I just know she lives in a world of denial and delusion. Her reality is based on complete illusions. She thinks people really are the roles she sees them as and not as living people. And she thinks people see her as she wants to be seen and not as she is.
Fortunately, we don't live in the delusions inside her head.

Sis

Tundra Woman said...

Yk, I KNOW these people are absolutely responsible for deaths, Bess, either directly or indirectly: Psychob certainly was.
But they go about doing it in such away they have so many degrees of separation etc., good luck nailing them from a legal POV.
And the sloowww, painful torture in which they engage/predate psychologically, physically and emotionally on their own kids is no less blood on their hands than that of Lady Macbeth. Mine didn't even feel obliged to say, "Out! Out damn spot!"
Yes, they LOVE to talk about themselves-their favorite topic of conversation while they're ripping and tearing the hell out of someone else, deflecting from their culpability or comparing (indirectly) themselves to another who "got caught."
I remain convinced they revel in their perceptions of themselves as "Innocent" when the reality is they were found "Not Guilty." By virtue of their "Label" as a "Mother" or "Father" or "Parent." If they ever answered to ANYONE, which is unlikely. In their own minds, a source of "Bragging Rights." But reality is yes, they're guilty as hell.
Which is not hardly the same as "Innocent."
And that's most fundamentally why I'm calling mine out: Evil DOES exist in the form of human beings. They do "go forth and multiply." But who's gonna believe US? After all, we were "kids." And had zilch credibility as a result.
Now as an old lady I'm gonna tell it and if my grey hair and wrinkles, my consistency and integrity don't give me the credibility that was denied for years?
Fuck it.
I'm STILL gonna tell the truth.
TW

q1605 said...

Bess. My mother still talks about the night my father snuffed it and says she doesn't know why he did it. She gave him "some" earlier that night.
My mother has a different story for every set of eyes.
What she brags about to me, she denies to her neighbors. What she brags about to her neighbors, she uses to denigrate them to me. Ostensibly for them being hay seeds and believing her bull shit.
She tells me one thing. My sister another. And our respective spouse's something completely different. In my last conversation with her, I told her how she was inches from a clean getaway.
That until then few people had put their heads together enough to figure out the magnitude of all her lies. But it wasn't good enough. When she could of, and should of rested on her laurels, she had to keep pushing it.
Now we all know as much as anyone living outside of her head will ever know.
And we know that whatever she tells us can never be counted on as being no where near the truth.
And that's as close as we'll ever get to completing the story of our lives.
Just that we were raised by some bitch that was so crazy that she should have been locked in an old cellar and fed by dropping bits of food through a hole in the floor.
This was our last thanksgiving together.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouWttAtB_hs
They thought it would be funny to lock me in the basement with her.

Tundra Woman said...

Also, Mulder, Your description of the "tactics" utilized by your NF and NM has been my experience as well, but not with my parents (Dad was NOT an N, which made a helluva lot of difference) but illuminates the difference between Psychob and Nsis; Both are N's, but the manner in which it was manifested was very much as you described.
IMO, it's as if there are different "flavors" of Ns. FWIW, it's been my observation as well that N's are more of a continuum than discrete entities.
Nonetheless, they "Get the job done" with one supporting or complementing the another: A "Tag Team" as I call them.
Of course, you have the NGC playing his role as well and a sibling that's an N has an inherently different relationship with us. I know how much I wanted to see my Nsis as being "Flea Bitten" for years (hope springs eternal) instead of an full-blown N.
Which leaves me wondering again (to what purpose besides an intellectual pursuit, I guess) if there is some kind of genetic thing going on here.
Q and Sis are the only sibs I've come across in my "travels" that seem to get it and agree in principle on the reality of The Barbarian's MN. Bess and her Sis also seem to have a decent relationship.
Yet there is also quite an age difference between them (Q and Sis) as there was between you and NGC. It appears you "mothered" NGC and my sense is Sis also did the same with Q. And your older brother? Mon Dieu, one SCARY mo-fo and reminds me of your NF as he likely was in his younger years, perhaps before you knew him.
I know it's simply an intellectual pursuit but in the back of my mind is always the potential of a genetic thing, yk? My Nsis was Psychob all over again, but with a sib, it's so hard to discern based on the nature of the relationship and my hope for so many years to have some sort of relationship with her.
TW

q1605 said...

My mother didn't try the divide and conquer until me and sis were into middle age.
As kids she just paid so little attention to us that we depended on each other.
Or I depended on her.
It must have sucked to have to look after my dumb ass like she did.

mulderfan said...

Yep, I mothered the NGC until I left home for good when he was 11.

I tried to rescue my older brother (he was only 17 months older) from bullies at school and NF. Maybe I was the mother there too.

Then when I was 14 or 15 he put the moves on me, saying "brothers and sisters are supposed to practice with each other". Somehow I just knew it was wrong and actually had to fight him off. After that everything changed between us. I recovered that memory in therapy and it wasn't until years later I found out he'd also molested the NGC and his own younger daughter. By the time he tried his shit with my daughter at a family gathering I was way ahead of him and went from LC to NC in the blink of an eye. The SOB stalked and threatened me until my DH threatened to find him and go the baseball bat route!

The NGC was the one that finally filled the NPs in on their older son but they said all four of us had made it up. When he was killed in an accident they elevated him to sainthood and have his pictures plastered everywhere. NM milks it for all it's worth, along with the story of her dead son-in-law. Now she probably sobs about how her mentally ill daughter abuses them.

Damned if I care what, when or why anymore!

vicariousrising said...

My mother is terrified of me. Which is weird. Or I could be wrong. But it's something I realized last year

It doesn't make it better, make her more sympathetic. She plays it with her limited audience, sobs whereas I refuse to let them see my pain. Because when they see it, they pounce.

I'm planning a new tattoo of the kanji for "determination" to be put on my spine. Not a tramp stamp. Just in a place where when I feel sad and downtrodden, I'll remember what I've lived through.

q1605 said...

Some times I think the driving force keeping me alive is that it denies that hag the mileage she would get from milking my early demise as if she actually gave a flying fuck whether I lived or died.

q1605 said...

TW. The barbarian would have been bad enough if she would have taken all of the stuff that she could take. But it's like she had to make sure anything she left behind was spoiled.
Like Sherman's march through the south. Just laying everything to waste

Anonymous said...

We propped each other up as much as possible. And our granny, she was our foundation. I was going to say, I'm determined to live longer than you know who. I want to be like my friend whose N mother died and she danced around the living room going, "ding dong, the witch is dead".

Sis

Tundra Woman said...

It appears your granny played the same role as my Father did in terms of being the one sane family member who was an "Adult." Besides "Help" who were Black or first generation immigrants from Eastern Europe, post WW II.
And physically as present as often as your GMA: Not all the time, but often enough that I had some stability in my life. They ran "interference" as they were able, but that wasn't nearly as often as we as kids needed. Or they were "allowed." Everyone hid when all hell was breaking loose.
Torn between two conflicting and Shakespearian "characters:" His "wife" and his "kids." And Social changes that were coming.
Also "Gmas" and Older Women in the Southern US were viewed with a much higher degree of respect than I think is prevalent now-I could be wrong here. Dad's roots were Southern, but he also knew the realities of Divorce in the '50's and '60's AND what is now known as "PAS." He was stuck between a rock and a hard place, but at least he put it all out there until his body failed.
His heart "broke." Literally. He was a screaming bigot. But I knew then as I know now, he loved kids. Once I saw him looking at some small Black and Italian children playing together who were some tenant's kids on one of our farms with a smile and I said, "Dad, they have Daddies and Mommies who love them too. Just like you love me and Nsis right?" I was about 7.
He looked at me with sadness and said, "I can't change this, TW." I asked him, "Why not?
He just looked away and drove on.
TW