Tuesday, December 31, 2013

Excerpted From Kathy Krajco's Blog

Facing Facts About NPD


Taken together, my last few posts make an important point:
  1. If people suffering from NPD can keep themselves from abusing when there would be witnesses, they can keep themselves from abusing when there wouldn't be witnesses. They just don't.
  2. By going to great lengths to abuse on the sly while portraying themselves to the outside world as the very antithesis of what they are, NPDs prove that they know that their behavior is wrong and shameful = something to hide.
  3. Most children of narcissists do NOT choose to imitate the parent who hurts them so and therefore do NOT become narcissists themselves.
This is why the courts (in the US) don't regard NPD as a defense. That's because it isn't insanity. The insane
  1. attack people in broad daylight, in front of God and everybody, like that tiger I mentioned in this previous post.
  2. are NOT cunning; they don't do evil on the sly; they don't cover up their true character with an impressive facade; they don't plan (premeditate) how to sneak around and get away with wrongdoing on the sly.
The insane show by the way they go about a crime that (a) they don't know what they're doing, (b) that they don't know it's wrong, something to hide and be ashamed of, and (c) that they can't control themselves to keep from doing it.

Does any of that fit the NPD modus operandi? No.

This is why NPD is legally a CHARACTER disorder, not a mental disorder that leaves a person free of responsibility for what he or she does.

In other words, NPD is NOT insanity. NPDs are twisted, not insane.

Are they then just evil?

Nobody needs anyone to tell them the answer to that question. Just follow simple logic: Add 2+2 = ?

NPDs don't do evil to do evil: they do it because it makes them feel good = because doing evil is like a drug, a pain killer.

So, we cannot get on a high horse of moral superiority, because we aren't tempted as they are. We don't have their predatory urges.

But that doesn't mean that we should close our eyes to what they are. If hurting others makes you feel good, you like hurting others. Sorry, there's just no getting around that.

If you want to hurt others, you're malevolent. Sorry, there's just no getting around that.

It's DANGEROUS to be in denial of these facts. Dangerous to regard NPDs as people of goodwill, as suffering victims who can't help it.

That just plays right into their hands. That's what they want -- for you to be a sucker and feel sorry for them. To make excuses for them. To assign them a lower set of standards to live up to.

There's a sucker born every minute. Before you know it, they have you regarding THEM as the victim, feeling sorry for THEM instead of their victims. All hell must be laughing their heads off at this joke. What a travesty of justice. What a perversion of Truth.

It's a false choice -- that suggested choice between hating them and sympathizing with them. The sensible choice is simply to regard them as what they are: predators. In other words, STAY AWAY FROM THEM. NEVER TRUST THEM. AND DON'T GO INTO THEIR CAGE.
If you lie, you are a liar. If you kill, you are a killer. We are the sum total of what our CHOICES to date have made us. Narcissists too are the sum total of what their choices to date have made them. Adult narcissists have passed the point of no return long ago.

Perhaps some day psychiatrists will learn some way to help them pay the toll to that demon at the door, so narcissists can return to the human way of life. Let us hope for that day, but let us not, in the meantime, be dangerously naive.


TUESDAY, SEPTEMBER 26, 2006

Are Narcissists Evil?

Some, including narcissists and politically correct social workers, protest plain talk about narcissists and claim that they are not evil. Even Sam Vaknin does this, and he makes no excuses for narcissists. In fact, in several of his writings, he admits in one breath that “some” are sadists and then tries to tell us that narcissists are not evil in the next breath.

I’m not afraid to know a lie when I hear one, but I see no reason to think that he is lying when he says this. I think he is just failing to be completely honest with himself. Which is perfectly understandable, because EVERY person’s most prized possession is their self concept of themselves as an essentially good person. No one can bear the thought of being inherently evil. Here I mention a narcissist who told me she contemplated suicide when confronted with the fear of being inherently evil, saying that she would have been one of those suicides “who doesn’t even leave a note.”

So, I don’t blame narcissists for denying that they are evil. No one must condemn himself. Ever. No matter what.

And though I disagree, I think Vaknin makes a valid and important point here – a distinction that we all should recognize.

First, where I disagree.

As I often say, I am convinced that the only rein on a narcissist’s behavior is what he thinks he can get away with. So he will be as sadistic as he can. All are sadistic then, but only some are sadistic all the time, and most are sadistic some of the time.

Also, if you hurt others because hurting others makes you feel good, youlike hurting others. Sorry, there’s just no getting around that. Trying to makes as much sense as trying to say that you don't like eating steak, you just eat steak because it tastes yummy. Sorry, that means you LIKE eating steak.

And, to LIKE hurting others is wickedness, malignance, malice, malevolence. No matter what other euphemistic name you prefer to cloak it with.

BUT, Vaknin is correct in viewing the narcissist as inconsistent with our image of “evil beings.” The mythology of the devil portrays him as a being who loves evil and does evil for it’s own sake. Just to do evil.

This is an understandable error, because the (truly) good love goodness for its own sake and do good just to do good, for its own sake. Naturally then, we just take the flip-side of that coin and apply to our image of the Evil One.

Wrong.

First, there is no such thing as the devil. It’s a symbol for something. Ill will. It is not some other kind of being from an eternal realm, a bodiless PERSON. It is the malevolence in some people.

Since it is the product of human nature gone awry, at bottom it is LIKE human nature. It differs ABOVE the root, not at its root.

Narcissists don’t love evil. They don’t do evil for its own sake. Which is why they don’t ALWAYS choose evil. Sometimes they advance their plan by choosing to do good for the wrong reasons. They do what they do because it makes them feel good. They are people in pain, and Narcissistic Supply (various forms of attention) are like a pain-killing drug to them. They must have it all. Like any addict who can’t get enough of his or her pain-killing drug, the narcissist will attack you and steal any you have.

That’s all. It may seem like splitting hairs, but there is a difference. They don’t hurt you just to hurt you: they hurt you because they like hurting you = hurting you makes them feel good.

The worse they hurt you, the better they feel, so they are sadistic.

I say that makes them evil. BUT, I also say that this should teach us an important lesson about evil.

Nobody does evil just to do evil. Nobody loves evil. Nobody does it for its own sake. Indeed, this is why the narcissist can’t face the facts about his conduct. He hates evil as much as anyone does. So he lives in denial of the evil he does, in deniel of the sickness/malignance within him. For, he too has brought up in the belief that the evil are inherently evil because they love evil and do it for its own sake. The dread of knowing himself as THAT is what compells him to malignantly narcissistic behavior.

But both he and we are WRONG. Narcissists are NOT inherently or essentially evil. No one is. They just make themselves evil by choosing to do evil, disregarding the consequences to others. Like selfish three-year-olds. Like us, they are the sum-total of all their life’s choices to date. So, they can become un-evil by making a 180-degree turn and living the other way.

Which will cost them each an arm and a leg, and Vaknin explains whyhere. Yet theoretically, it can be done. And perhaps the first step is to realize that this doesn't make them INHERENTLY evil. Not any more than stomping people makes them INHERENTLY superior.

12 comments:

Lisette said...

It will be a cold day in hell when psychiatrists learn some way to help them pay the toll to that demon at the door. Narcissists enjoy their evil way of being and nothing is going to change that.

q1605 said...

Yeah I wouldn't hold my breath trying to outlast them. Evil is evil. Yet people still try to pathologize the victim in an attempt to not have to accept the fact that evil walks among us.

Pandora Viltis said...

I remember when I originally read this post and how much better it made me feel about my mother. Because a part of me EVEN NOW wants to believe my mother is crazy versus a raging bitch. But giving her the benefit of the doubt ends up with me being crushed under her evil.

mulderfan said...

She's totally explained why these "I" statements recommended by the so-called pros are a dismal failure when used in communicating with a narcissist.

Imagine this scenario:

Me: "I felt hurt when you said I failed to protect you as a child."

Narcissist (with a smile on his face): "Fantastic! What else can I say to hurt you?"

Fuck 'em!

q1605 said...

Yeah if you can make yourself believe they are crazy as opposed to just mean it takes the ball out of your court and you can quit thinking you can change them. I think.....
It's early. I am not making sense yet.

Tundra Woman said...

If you can't get people to comprehend Predatory and Opportunistic, good luck with a most non-PC word/concept such as "Evil." Kathy K and Anna V nailed all three years ago.
And yet some of the offspring who have been the relentless recipients of these concepts up close and personal remain obtusely in denial about three of the most consistently demonstrated Characteristics of NPs. They have confused "Unique" (as in DNA) with "Special" (their particular situation.) Principles apply across the same Phenomena regardless of the particulars of their manifestations.
Trees, meet Forest.
TW

q1605 said...

How many times do you have to get bitten on the ass before you quit dropping your pants and tying a pork chop to your back side while running naked through the doberman kennel and wise up?

q1605 said...

Or something like that.

mulderfan said...

Got a visual on the doberman kennel thing. Made my night! You are not just funny, Q. Your are FUCKING funny!

q1605 said...

THing is TW is that by the time you get it all figured out the trap door flies open and the noose snaps your neck and then it's too late. You have to be a bit proactive or you are sunk.

Tundra Woman said...

Why be "Proactive" when you can be PC? Despite having a ton of information available, years pass and...nothing changes.
They're "processing" don'tchaknow. Please "respect" their "process" which translates into telling them what they want to hear. Truth, Objectivity? Do not dare enter HERE, hell, no. And don't YOU expect this "respect" to be reciprocal. Hell no!
Because NC was "so much *easier* before technology."
Really? REALLY? You've found the damn Holy Grail all OVER this technology not to mention tons of support and understanding/empathy. To the point where you're now comfortably sitting in your rut while bitching about it. Ah! Yes! Having it *every* way! What more could a spineless PC-er ask for?
Try doing this ALONE. No technology. No support.
Oh, that's right-may have to get off Farcebook etc. or learn to use Privacy settings. Yes, people actually DID get out before technology. Oh, that's right-what else would one expect from the "most selfish generation-the baby boomers." Never mind the reality they're reading this info on technology initiated by (gasp!) baby boomers.
What is the greatest and most consistent regret AC's express regarding their CB "parents?" That they ever exposed their OWN children to their CB "parents." Hmmm-well, let's ignore that because "processing" continues-years later. Translation: Bitching about your CHOICES. Which you refuse to OWN while you continue to bloviate, pontificate and otherwise rationalize not making a single change in your own life. Or head set. And besides, you're "Special." Your situation is "Unique" when the reality is NO, IT'S NOT. The same Principles apply. The reality YOU can't APPLY them is your own stupidity and flat out refusal to accept Reality.
WTF would those with decades of experience dealing with CBs know? Oh, that's right: They didn't spend their life "sharing" and "expressing" and intellectualizing, minimizing, projecting and lying to themselves: They took action and changed their REALITY instead of wallowing in it. They PROTECTED themselves AND THEIR FAMILIES.
Yet somehow, those who dare NOT face reality have deluded themselves into believing they have the moral and ethical high ground because "it's not one size fits all." As if this ridiculous paradigm was ever stated or implied.
My "New Years Resolution?"
The PC-ers will be pleased to know I don't read your Blogs, I will not support your ridiculous BS and self-delusion any longer and your "Process" is as transparent as your faux "intelligence" and alleged "Education."
My wish for YOU? That you continue to wet your pants every time you're confronted with the REALITY YOU'VE CHOSEN, that you continue to "process" your "journey" that goes no where even years later. You refuse to be a responsible ADULT and protect your OWN kids simply because you lack the moral backbone to PROTECT YOURSELF.
And that's EXACTLY what you've DOING.
No matter how may words, concepts and "paradigms" you attempt to hide behind. I understand ignorance-"not knowing." I will not support WILLFUL ignorance. Or the "I'm special because I'm SPECIAL!" Self-Esteem (Bowel) Movement our educational system initiated years ago without a scintilla of research to support it. And this is the result: Willful Ignorance in the name of "Special."
You disgust me.
TW

Joan S said...

So they can just choose to do good then everything will be ok? The only part I don't understand is how they can do the evil they do. Hurting a small child even, its twisted. Normal people with normal consciences, well, I don't see them even being able to do the things MN's do. It would be impossible. I'm bad sometimes, but why does it have to be so damn hard for a narcissist to have to work so damn hard to divert himself from the horrible despicable acts of an MN, like its so hard, like the poor MN's, OMG those poor people.

NOT!