Thursday, December 17, 2015

Stories From Estranged Parents

Issendai seems to strike a chord with you guys and so, I will continue to post  posts of hers until I get called on it.
http://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/stories-from-estranged-parents.html

Stories from Estranged Parents

The forums where estranged parents post are full of stories.
  • A grandmother dislikes the formula her daughter-in-law is feeding her granddaughter. When her son and daughter-in-law reject her advice, she sends an email to the daughter-in-law's family, and when that gets no results, she calls CPS.
  • A woman follows her estranged adult son around town for hours before cornering him at his job site and demanding to speak to him.
  • A woman's daughter has been estranged for two years. The mother doesn't have any contact information for her except an address that will change shortly. She asks a forum for estranged parents for help, and the other members offer to track down her daughter and take photos for her.
  • A man's son cut contact with him 14 years ago, and has evaded all his father's attempts to get his phone number, email, or home address. The father finally tracks down the son's home address and turns up on his doorstep to inform him that the estrangement has gone on long enough. When the son blasts his father with rage, the father is shocked and hurt, and concludes that his son is severely mentally ill.
  • These are not stories estranged children tell about their parents. They're stories estranged parents tell each other about their own lives.
    • A woman asks the forum whether it would be a good idea to write to her estranged son's girlfriend and tell the girlfriend that she, the mother, loves the son too. Several forum members tell her yes, do it.
    • A woman finds a personals ad from her estranged son's ex-wife—who has also broken off contact with her ex-husband's parents—and answers it. She suggests that instead of looking high and low for a good man to take care of her, she let the grandparents be the "good man" and take care of the grandchildren for the summer.
    • A grandmother thinks her married daughter is having an affair. To make her stop, she lies to her daughter, telling her that she hired a private investigator to follow the daughter, and now she has photos of her daughter and her daughter's boyfriend together.
    • Estranged parents who visit forums for adult children of abusers complain that the adult children think everything is abuse. They're misled by therapists, by a culture of entitlement, by their own narcissistic personality disorder.
      • A grandmother who is estranged from her son's family gathers a party of six other relatives and ambushes the daughter-in-law at her house when the son is at work. The daughter-in-law refuses to let them in, so they stay on the lawn, screaming at her, for hours.
      • During an argument with her teenaged daughter, a woman locks herself in the bathroom and attempts suicide by trying to cut her hand off. Years later, she blames her now-estranged daughter for the incident.
      There might be genuinely abusive parents out there, but none of them are members of this forum.
      • A woman waits at her dying mother's bedside because she knows her estranged daughter will be coming to say her goodbyes to her grandmother. When the daughter arrives, the mother refuses to let her daughter say her goodbyes until her daughter hashes out the estrangement with her. The daughter decides to leave, and leans over to give her grandmother a kiss farewell. The mother grabs her daughter by the hair and drags her out of the room.
      Just being in the forum is proof that the parents want to work things out.
      • A couple sue for visitation rights to their two grandsons, one of whom they have never met. They lose. The day after the loss in court, they show up at their grandsons' school with presents, asking the staff whether they can see the boys.
      Real abusers never want to work things out.
      • A woman mails her estranged daughter a hand-drawn picture of the daughter standing over her mother's bloodied corpse, holding a knife.
      Their children don't know what they're talking about.

    • These incidents were drawn from public forums for estranged parents and grandparents, public forums for the discussion of psychological and relationship difficulties, and pages where estranged parents and grandparents post their stories to raise awareness of estrangement. All but two of the incidents were related entirely by the parents or grandparents in question. Two of the incidents were related by the estranged children and confirmed by the parents.
      These are not stories estranged children tell one another. These are stories estranged parents tell about themselves.

27 comments:

Elli G said...

Hahahah, and I thought that my mama was crazy for cornerning my boyfriend back when I was 19 to tell him that she knows we were running a porn website and she was about to take action.. Poor guy, when I came back from the store he just stared at me and said "Don't you ever leave me alone with your mother again!"

Truly though, I think they do have rare moments of introspection when they realize they are huge assholes but are very careful to quickly tuck these thoughts back into their subconscious. Hence, you get these gems on public forums :)

Five Hundred Pound Peep said...

It sounds like a Stalkers Training forum. Look if someone wants nothing to do with you, you can't control another person who is an adult. The poisonous boundary breaking, control freak dramas and extreme events speak for themselves. You can see why the adult children ran and disappeared.

q1605 said...

Sometimes you really need a program to tell who are the adults and who are the children. I have no idea about what my mother told others after I went NC. I told her a lot of the things I remembered that I am sure she was counting on me to forget. If she can tell me that I dreamed up her criminal activity while I was in a drug stupor what she might have told others boggles my mind.
And Elli what would be so horrible about running a porn site? It's not illegal anywhere around the world. Not anyplace I know about.

Anonymous said...

Yeah I am sure she told others far worse, that you made up those lies about her. Even if you showed newspaper reports she'd probably claim that was just a woman with her same name and not her.

Judith said...

These stories are fucking terrifying.

q1605 said...

Anonymous..... I actually made copies of her trial coverage and sent them to her neighbors and after she died and my sister called the neighbors but nothing was mentioned but the "terrible letters" I sent her. Not one word about her press clippings. Thanks for the someone else's name idea because I couldn't think of how she could explain that one away. Now I am sure that's what she did. People with personality disorders are big on the prove it approach. As in I saw my ex go into a guy's apartment and she told me to prove it. I said I sat there and watched you go in and to that she never wavered from the prove it defense. If you have to approach a spouse with an ad hoc trial to get the truth, it's time to go. We divorced within the next 6 months. I would have opted for sooner but there is a lag time between filing and having it signed sealed and delivered. My ex wives parents are Dallas old timers and remembered when it all (my mother's trial) all went down but people in the south don't like to confront women on things that might make them appear unlady like.

q1605 said...

Judith...aren't they. I got so I hated to go out with my mother as a child because before we could get back home she was sure to cause a scene somewhere. The thing that comes to mind was her accusing the butcher at the grocery store of using red tinted lights to make the meat look fresher than what it really was. I worked for Safeway going on 20 years and never once did I hear of that kind of deception. Of course now I understand she was clinically insane. WORSE! anytime somebody tried to force her to seek a professional they ended up dead and or cut out of the family. My sister told me right before my father's suicide he had told her he was taking her to a psychiatrist so I guess she filled him in on the wretched wife he threw his future away for and he snuffed it.

Judith said...

My mom wouldn't set foot into a family session at my rehab. It was supposed to be basically a session for my counsellors to explain to them about my alcoholism and how they could help. My mother told them it would be "awkward." No one really knows what the hell she meant by that, but my guess is that she was afraid they'd spot her crazy a mile away.

Before rehab, I'd asked my dad about getting family counseling so we could find some common ground. I was desperate to salvage some sort of relationship. I even told them they could pick the therapist. My mother refused because she'd "done nothing wrong."

Your mom takes all that to its own special level, though.

Joan S said...

I can't even imagine what I'd do if mother was stalking me. Or what my life would be like. I got the break, and I feel badly for these people whose parents won't stop. It must be so scary.

Elli G said...

Q,

I really can't tell you what she meant by saying taking action on a thing that never took place. We were just two teenagers that were hooked on video games so she inferred that kids+computer=porn site. She professes to be the one who is ethical whenever we fight, and I am a slut. I guess part of her ethic is riding gigolo ding dongs when children are young and husband is at work.

You would need an imagination wilder than a white shark to figure out what lies she spread about you behind your back. Have no doubt that they were plenty and disgusting.

Bess said...

If my mother could still drive or had monkeys to tote her to my area of the world, she'd be doing this shit. It's good for me to read this stuff, keeps me from making the mistake of contacting her. Thank god she can't go to my younger son's school.

mulderfan said...

My parents have told people for years that I'm mentally ill just like my aunt. I realize now my mother's sister was like me, "the one that got away" from the fucked up childhood she shared with my mother. My mother never had a good word to say about my aunt and loved putting her down. Why? She was a kind decent human being and both me and my older brother worshiped her which my mother just HAD to try and undermine.

Before I stopped giving a rat's ass about what people think, I used to wonder what the staff at my folk's retirement home thought of the nutbar daughter story. They knew I was my parents' POA and the person they were contact in case of emergency, even though I was an hour away and the NGC lived nearby. When I did show up now and then, did they compare the well-dressed old lady, with clean hair, driving a decent car to the aging hippie who looked like he hadn't bathed in a week, had just crawled out from under a bridge and was clearly high and/or drunk? The 1st one, me, was what my parents called "a head case" while the 2nd one, my brother, was their golden child.

Gotta a feeling the staff knew exactly who the crazies were and it wasn't me or my buzzed-up brother!

The common theme has always been, that these types of parents never take responsibility for what they've done or are doing. They know it's wrong or they wouldn't turn it off when they can be overheard or they're dealing with non-family members. They will go to great lengths to lay the blame on their victims.

It's all right there in the narc handbook!

Five Hundred Pound Peep said...

Anon was me, I was posting fast without signing in, but I do think she did tell people, that was someone else with that name. It makes sense doesn't it. Otherwise how do you explain that one. With enough time too people look different too. Yeah they will say things like prove it. They know they can get people to deny things right in front of their eyes with their manipulation.

Five Hundred Pound Peep said...

Yes ah the scenes, eating out with my father was a nightmare. He was so cruel to waiters and waitresses, I'm sure some were spitting in our food. Something was either too cold or hot. Everything was a screaming match. I bet all the service people and restaurants wanted to puke when they saw my family coming. They get revenge and do anything to stop those who would expose them.

q1605 said...

Literally the last time we were out with my mother and stepfather. We didn't get seated before they had glared down some toddler and it's mother. I never got to see what happened but I was maybe two steps behind them and I caught up just in time to hear the kids mother dressing them down and telling them "HE'S JUST A CHILD" which was her way of saying go pick on someone your own size.

q1605 said...

Yeah M-fan my last talk on the phone I confronted my mother with stuff I guaranty she didn't think I remembered and it took her back about a nano second before she started calling me crazy. It was still too pat she had already told me about 5 times the same OH I DID NOT! And she used the same tone of voice like a preloaded denial but you could tell there was a half second of oh shit how did he remember THAT?
I don't get why someone who never worked a day in her life would go to the effort to construct this huge false reality. It must have been exhausting. I have worked with people that were like that. You would tell them to sweep out the closet and come back an hour later and they would have gone to the trouble of catching stray cats and tying dusters to their tails and have a bunch of mice to throw in and count on the resulting mayhem to collect the dust on the dust mops. And be proud of their intricate plan. And you just say ....or you have swept it up with this broom and dustpan and been done with it hours ago. I mean do you fire someone for being that stupid when they obviously busted their ass trying to make it simpler. I know that's a convoluted analogy but if you were in the workforce long enough you'll get the joke.

q1605 said...

Judith two words come to mind Identified Patient. I think we all qualify for that. It's too easy for them to sidestep any admission of guilt for anything they did. anytime they did it. I'll just convince everyone my kid is crazy and not me.
Don't look at me she's the crazy one. I know I had more than one friend over the years who ended up alone with my mother and never quite looked at me the same after. To me that's ballsy to say whatever they said knowing I am going to be alone with this person on the way back home to potentially confirm or deny whatever she told them. No one ever asked for explanations which leads me to believe whatever she said was so far over the top that the person dare not repeat it. Ya know. You guys know my story and even at my advanced age I still ask myself why? We could have been so normal but my mother just couldn't stop rocking the boat. She didn't care two shits for any of us. I guess she was envious. But after she got through with us there was nothing left to envy. We all worked our asses off to get what we got. With her around, marriage was an iffy proposition until you convinced your spouse that she was insane. Even then you could never let your guard down. All of you all have varying degrees of the same shit I had. WHY? why why why I don't fucking get it, not then, and not now. All I know to do is be everything she wasn't and ....that's why I got a vasectomy. No way in hell was she going to get her hands on any kid of mine. I know a lot of you have kids and most of you guard them from your parents. When I look at my ex-wife all I can think of is the huge bullet I dodged by not having a kid with her. In hindsight I feel like if I had had a child with my ex-wife I would have ended up on the evening news rolling down the street with my hands around her neck strangling her.

q1605 said...

Elli I missed this on the first pass.
I guess part of her ethic is riding gigolo ding dongs when children are young and husband is at work. HAHAHAHA That is rich. Again I wonder about the twins separated at birth scenario. I think what it is is that after point they really are too crazy for human consumption. Some where in the archive I have pasted in a chapter from Cleckleys mask of sanity...If your mom was as slutty as mine and it sounds like she was he has them nailed to a T. He goes into great lengths describing how sex isn't really about sex to them but just them using people to smear themselves on. I have it posted somewhere but you can download the whole book from here :http://www.cassiopaea.org/cass/sanity_1.PdF

q1605 said...

And that link lets you get it for free.

Elli G said...

Many times I just don't want to spook you, that's why I don't always comment on how many different ways the two of them are identical. You wrote about yours being the customer from hell. Till you meet mine... One night we went to a tavern and she tore the waiter a new one, because they allegedly kept bottles of good wine and filled them up with cheap booze which then had special machines to reseal them. All that because the cork had different print than the label on the bottle. The wine we ordered though wasn't expensive to start with... I just wanted to crawl under the table.

I've read both the post and I downloaded the book. Thanks for the link!

Judith said...

You probably wouldn't have been at all like your, parents, Q, but I get it. I swore upside down I didn't want kids because I was terrified I'd be like my mother, but then my son was a surprise. I can't say I've not kicked things up in my own way, but my son knows I love him, which means I did at least that much right.

However, I think you dodged a bullet not having kids with your ex-wife who was basically a mini-me of your mother. That woman would've damaged any child she might have. I hope she didn't ever have kids of her own.

q1605 said...

Actually hopes she has a whole litter. Just to curtail her free range spirit. But we live in the same town and I am afraid they would grow up and mug me.

q1605 said...

It takes a lot to spook me Elli...... about two thirds of the way through the book he goes into how psychopaths views about sex and he has my mother down pat. His main point is that rather than seeing it as a shared experience of love and trust it's just something they have to do to gain control over another human being.

Elli G said...

Judith you are absolutely right. Women like Q's ex should be banned from having babies. My husband's ex-wife has been a vicious bitch using the kids to hurt him.

Q, you are right. I was talking about spooking me. It spooks me because I still have her around, within striking distance.

Tundra Woman said...

I'm really reluctant to speak/write much about my experiences post NC as I'm concerned an AC who was considering NC may read it and decide the "cost" isn't worth it. But it is.
Think about it this way: If you're even CONSIDERING LC/NC, you're in pathological CB "Parent" territory. People who have "good enough" parents would never have a thought like this cross their mind. Really. Why do we have such a difficult time explaining to ourselves how bad it really is? Why do we ANGUISH over making this decision? When we're directly involved it's about impossible to see the patterns of behavior. We've down-played the pain and chaos they have caused over decades because THEY insisted it was no big deal, we're "carrying grudges," what ever our concerns are, they're "silly," "immature" "didn't happen" (flat out denial in service to their Selective Amnesia) etc. We're born hard-wired to bond with our primary caretakers-that's just science. CB "parents" are typically characterized as "Cold, very rejecting of their children and highly critical." Those "qualities" aren't hardly conducive to parental bonding. But it takes us DECADES to limit/terminate contact with these abusive parents.
Bruises fade. Broken bones mend. Burns scar over. It is the psychological/emotional abuse and neglect that leaves the longest demands. Again, if you're even considering LC/NC, limit the relationship or terminate it and see the Crazy really erupt. Oh yeah, it's worse, further down the pathological continuum than you could conceive. It may be cold comfort but they absolutely will confirm your decision- consistently.
TW

mulderfan said...

TW, Took me a long time to make my escape because they'd convinced me that I was the nutbar who was to blame for the whole mess. Even after several counselors and shrink told me I was the sane one, it still took years for me to break free of the conditioning and walk away. Even then, I had to go for one more kick in the teeth which proved this to be true: "they absolutely will confirm your decision- consistently" and, yeah, they get WAY worse!

q1605 said...

Mulderfan about you questioning why your brother that was larger than your father .....why he never stood up to him. I am thinking they always get their pound of flesh so he knew anything he did would eventually bite him on the ass.