Friday, February 12, 2016

Never love anything that can't love you back.

Lately it seems there are many blogs defending the narcissist or in subtle ways defending their behavior. So I will post this from Joanna Ashmun's blog if you are just starting out on your trip to discover who you really are after the narc has destroyed your sense of self.

Click here to see her wonderful blog from before she passed on. 

Never love anything that can't love you back
Life being the way it is, a couple of weeks after I'd drafted this page, but before showing it for comments, I received the following joke in my email. It reminds me of something a wise old woman said: "I don't think the devil looks ugly and frightening. If he did, people wouldn't find him so attractive. The devil must be a handsome man." And the devil's sister is a pretty woman, as often as not.



One bright, beautiful Sunday morning, everyone in tiny Anytown got up early and went to the local church. Before the service started, the townspeople were sitting in their pews and talking about their lives, their families, and so on.Suddenly, Satan appeared at the front of the church.
Everyone started screaming and running for the front entrance, trampling each other in a frantic effort to get away from evil incarnate. Soon everyone had left the church except for an elderly gentleman who sat calmly in his pew, not moving, seemingly oblivious to the fact that God's ultimate enemy was in his presence.
Now, this confused Satan a bit, so he walked up to the man and said, "Hey! Don't you know who I am?"
The man replied, "Yep, sure do."
Satan asked, "Aren't you afraid of me?"
"Nope, sure ain't," said the man.
Satan was a little perturbed at this and queried, "Why aren't you afraid of me?"
The man calmly replied, "I've been married to your sister for 25 years."
"If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...."
To my knowledge, none of the narcissistic individuals I've known personally have had official diagnoses of Narcissistic Personality Disorder; they have not sought help and so haven't been assessed clinically. On the other hand, members of their families have sought help to cope with them -- and I have sought help in understanding every one of them! Thus these pages.
These are field notes -- that is, descriptions and observations to assist in identifying narcissists and also, I hope, to give aid and comfort to others who live and work with narcissists. I'm sorry that I cannot also give hope, but, since a prime characteristic of narcissists is believing that they are always right no matter what, narcissists are extremely resistant to change and, unfortunately, tend to get worse as they get older.
I have also never had to cope with a physically aggressive or sadistic narcissist. The narcissists I've known have pretty much stuck to neglect and verbal and emotional abuse. But lots of people have not been so lucky, and their narcissist parents or partners have been relentlessly interfering and cruel in efforts to reform and re-form their "beloveds," including but not limited to plastic surgery or bleaching and perming little babies' hair to make them more perfectly beautiful blondes. [If you had a narcissist for a parent, you may find some of these books helpful.]


Nearly everyone has some narcissistic traits. It's possible to be arrogant, selfish, conceited, or out of touch without being a narcissist. The practical test, so far as I know, is that with normal people, no matter how difficult, you can get some improvements, at least temporarily, by saying, essentially, "Please have a heart." This doesn't work with narcissists; in fact, it usually makes things worse. [See discussion of the relationship between normal personality traits and personality disorders.]
It's impossible to overemphasize the importance of narcissists' lack of empathy. It colors everything about them. I have observed very closely some narcissists I've loved, and their inability to pay attention when someone else is talking is so striking that it has often seemed to me that they have neurological problems that affect their cognitive functioning. These are educated people with high IQs, who've had ordinary middle-class backgrounds and schooling, and their thinking is not only illogical but weird: with narcissists, you have to know them pretty well to understand their behavior. For instance, they always fill in their gaps (which make up just about the entirety of their visible life) with bits of behavior, ideas, tastes, opinions, etc., borrowed from someone else whom they regard as an authority. Their authoritative sources, as far as I know, are always people they've actually known, not something from a book, for instance, and narcissists' opinions may actually come from someone you know, too, but who is not to you obviously an authority on the matter at hand, so narcissists can seem totally arbitrary, virtually random in their motivations and reasoning. They are evidently transfixed by a static fantasy image of themselves, like Narcissus gazing at his reflection, and this produces an odd kind of stillness and passivity. Because their inner life is so restricted and essentially dead, it doesn't contain images of how to live a full life -- these things are not important to them, they expect others to look after day-to-day chores, they resent wasting their specialness on common things, they don't put their heart into their work (though they'll tell you how many hours they put into it), they borrow their opinions and preferences and tastes from whomever strikes them as authoritative at the moment.
From my personal experience, and from what I've seen in the clinical literature, narcissists don't talk about their inner life -- memories, dreams, reflections -- much at all. They rarely recount dreams. They seem not to make typical memory associations -- i.e., in the way one thing leads to another, "That reminds me of something that happened when I was...of something I read...of something somebody said...." They don't tell how they learned something about themselves or the world. They don't share their thoughts or feelings or dreams. They don't say, "I have an idea and need some help," or "There's something I've always wanted to do...did you ever want to do that?" They do not discuss how they've overcome difficulties they've encountered or continuing problems that they're trying to solve (beyond trying to get someone else to do what they want). They often say that they don't remember things from the past, such as childhood events, their schooldays or old friends, and it seems to me that they really don't most of the time. Anyhow, for all these reasons, I've tried to refrain from speculating about (i.e., novelizing) what goes on in their heads. Writer John Cheever(who recorded having been diagnosed as a narcissist when he went to marriage counseling at his wife's insistence) describes some of his persistent fantasy images -- and, with Cheever, they're very striking, as you'll know if you've read any of his fiction; his characters and plots tend to be narcissistic (i.e., self-obsessed tunnel vision spiraling into nihilism), but his stories often contain memorably glorious set pieces or tableaux, such as the the hunt for the golden Easter egg in one of the Wapshot novels. Cheever also gives unself-conscious expression to the ways in which his obsessive preoccupation with himself (and his penis -- sort of a magic wand in his mind) obstructed his ability to relate to his wife and children, obstructed even his ability to perceive them: to see what they looked like, to pay attention to what they said and did, though with Cheever everything is also soaked with the sorrows of gin. Alice Adams's novel, Almost Perfect, also gives things from a narcissistic point of view in a way that I found convincing and credible, based on my personal experience of narcissistic individuals. A striking thing about narcissists that you'll notice if you know them for a long time is that their ideas of themselves and the world don't change with experience; the ones I've known have been stalled at a vision that came to them by the age of sixteen.
There are different theories of how narcissists are made. Some psychologists trace NPD to early infantile neglect or abuse, and some blame over-indulgence and indiscriminate praise by parents who don't set limits on what's acceptable from their children. Others say that NPD shows up in adolescence. Some say narcissists tend to peak around middle age and then mellow out. Others say that narcissists stay pretty much the same except they tend to depression as they get older and their grandiose fantasies are not supported, plus they're not as good-looking as they used to be. The narcissists I've known have apparently always been "that way" and they get worse as they get older, with dramatic regression of their personas after the deaths of their parents and other personal authority figures who have previously exerted some control over the narcissists' bad behavior. And, yes, chronic depression gets to be obvious at least by their forties but may have always been present. Depressed narcissists blame the world, of course, and not themselves for their personal disappointments.
     Essentially, narcissists are unable or unwilling to trust either the world or other people to meet their needs. Perhaps they were born to parents unable to connect emotionally and, thus, as infants learned not to let another person be essential to them in any way. Perhaps NPD starts later, when intrusive or abusive parents make it dangerous for the child to accept other people's opinions and valuations. Maybe it comes from a childhood environment of being treated like royalty or little gods. Whatever the case, narcissists have made the terrible choice not to love. In their imaginations, they are complete unto themselves, perfect and not in need of anything anyone else can give them. (NB: Narcissists do not count their real lives -- i.e., what they do every day and the people they do it with -- as worth anything.) Their lives are impoverished and sterile; the price they pay for their golden fantasies is high: they'll never share a dream for two.
Now, it is possible to have a relatively smooth relationship with a narcissist, and it's possible to maintain it for a long time. The first requirement for this, though, is distance: this simply cannot be done with a narcissist you live with. Given distance, or only transient and intermittent contact, you can get along with narcissists by treating them as infants: you give them whatever they want or need whenever they ask and do not expect any reciprocation at all, do not expect them to show the slightest interest in you or your life (or even in why you're bothering with them at all), do not expect them to be able to do anything that you need or want, do not expect them to apologize or make amends or show any consideration for your feelings, do not expect them to take ordinary responsibility in any way. But note: they are not infants; infants develop and mature and require this kind of care for only a brief period, after which they are on the road to autonomy and looking after themselves, whereas narcissists never outgrow their demands for dedicated attention to their infantile needs 168 hours a week. Adult narcissists can be as demanding of your time and energy as little babies but without the gratification of their growing or learning anything from what they suck from you. Babies love you back, but adult narcissists are like vampires: they will take all you can give while giving nothing back, then curse you for running dry and discard you as a waste of their precious time.
     It is also essential that you keep emotional distance from narcissists. They're pretty good at maintaining a conventional persona in superficial associations with people who mean absolutely nothing to them, and they'll flatter the hell out of you if you have something they can use or if, for some reason, they perceive you as an authority figure. That is, as long as they think you don't count or they're afraid of you, they'll treat you well enough that you may mistake it for love. But, as soon as you try to get close to them, they'll say that you are too demanding -- and, if you ever say "I love you," they'll presume that you belong to them as a possession or an appendage, and treat you very very badly right away. The abrupt change from decent treatment to outright abuse is very shocking and bewildering, and it's so contrary to normal experience that I was plenty old before I realized that it was actually my expression of affection that triggered the narcissists' nasty reactions. Once they know you are emotionally attached to them, they expect to be able to use you like an appliance and shove you around like a piece of furniture. If you object, then they'll say that obviously you don't really love them or else you'd let them do whatever they want with you. If you should be so uppity as to express a mind and heart of your own, then they will cut you off -- just like that, sometimes trashing you and all your friends on the way out the door. The narcissist will treat you just like a broken toy or tool or an unruly body part: "If thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off" [Matt. 18:8]. This means you.
     So, yes, it's possible to get along with narcissists, but it's probably not worth bothering with. If family members are narcissists, you have my deep sympathy. If people you work with are narcissists, you will be wise to keep an eye on them, if just for your own protection, because they don't think very well, no matter what their IQs, they feel that the rules (of anything) don't apply to them, and they will always cut corners and cheat wherever they think they can get away with it, not to mention alienating co-workers, clients, and customers by their arrogance, lies, malice, and off-the-wall griping. Narcissists are threatened and enraged by trivial disagreements, mistakes, and misunderstandings, plus they have evil mouths and will sayANYTHING, so if you continue to live or work with narcissists, expect to have to clean up after them, expect to lose friends over them, expect big trouble sooner or later.


If you're reading this because of problems with someone you know now, the chances are excellent that one or both of your parents was a narcissist. Narcissists are so much trouble that only people with special prior training (i.e., who were raised by narcissists) get seriously involved with them. Sometimes narcissists' children become narcissists, too, but this is by no means inevitable, provided stable love was given by someone, such as the non-narcissist parent or grandparents. Beyond that, a happy marriage will heal many old wounds for the narcissist's child. But, even though children of narcissists don't automatically become narcissists themselves and can survive with enough intact psychically to lead happy and productive lives away from their narcissistic parents, because we all love our parents whether they can love us back or not, children of narcissists are kind of bent -- "You can't get blood out of a stone," but children of narcissists keep trying, as if by bonding with new narcissists we could somehow cure our narcissistic parents by finding the key to their heart. Thus, we've been trained to keep loving people who can't love us back, and we will often tolerate or actively work to maintain connections with narcissistic individuals whom others, lacking our special training, find alienating and repellent from first contact, setting ourselves up to be hurt yet again in the same old way. Once narcissists know that you care for them, they'll suck you dry -- demand all your time, be more work than a newborn babe -- and they'll test your love by outrageous demands and power moves. In their world, love is a weakness and saying "I love you" is asking to be hurt, so be careful: they'll hurt you out of a sort of sacred duty. They can't or won't trust, so they will test your total devotion. If you won't submit to their tyranny, then you will be discarded as "no good," "a waste of time," "you don't really love me or you'd do whatever I ask," "I give up on you." (Note: In many instances, narcissists' demands are not only outrageous but also impossible to fulfill even if you want to please them. Plus if you actually want to do what they want you to do, that would be too much like sharing, so they won't want it anymore.)
     If you've had a narcissist for a parent, you are probably not afraid of dying and going to hell -- you have lived hell on Earth. Narcissists cannot be satisfied and do a tremendous amount of damage to their children and partners in their relentless demand for a perfect outer appearance to reflect the perfect inner image that obsesses them.Kyrie eleison.


Here follows a discussion of traits I've observed in the half-dozen or so narcissists of both sexes that I've known well over many years. Remember that narcissism is a personality disorder and narcissists' personalities are disordered: they don't make sense! They are not concerned with making sense and they are also impulsive, so you will waste your time trying to understand the details of every little thing they do.

19 comments:

Joan S said...

I just found out that mother ransacked her apartment just before she died. The tv was thrown, every drawer was thrown all over. Etc, etc. I was told that the police blocked out the place for they thought there was foul play. It turns out mother did it herself. In fact, she destroyed everything. What was that called when a narc gets no supply for awhile? I think that is what happened. Even there was forks stabbed into the walls.

q1605 said...

How strange. I wonder if she was like an animal and sensed her own demise and wanted to send some convoluted message. A few months after my grandmother died her house got tossed like that and as time went by I began to think my mother might have paid a guy to do it. Or at least told him to toss it and he could keep what he found.
She gave my ex wives aunt permission to haul off all the appliances and someone started rumors of my grandmother having a boat load of money hidden in the walls. Just a lot of insane stuff went on and it's nothing anyone could prove. When they tossed the house they also burned it down. That town has always had kids that set fire to any house gets left unattended. So we'll never know and from where I sit now I really don't care any more. My influence in our family was summed up by the disposition of her assets. They should all be careful what they wish for. "Answered prayers cause more tears than those that remain unanswered".

q1605 said...

Joan I wish I could tell you that she might have some regrets at ending up old and alone but I have yet to see a narc regret anything but not taking the last shot.

Joan S said...

Yeah, I don't think she regretted anything, but it looks like she completely lost it at the end. Or she had no supply for a long time and was starving. It was weird for mother was rather fastidious in keeping things orderly.

Five Hundred Pound Peep said...

Would someone old and dying have that much strength? I would say it was the flying monkeys vultures coming to scoop up what they can and telling people everything is damaged. My NM sees her house as a mauseleoum, like a permanent home of rest for her to haunt like Beatle-juice, I could never see her damaging it. The whole thing is weird Joan, be careful what they tell you, they could be lying.

q1605 said...

How long had she been sick and how far down had she gone? All the stuff with my grandmother couldn't have been her because she was in good shape until the very end. I know exactly when she died and I was a pall bearer and was completely in the loop until later. I just know when I would go to her house to pack things people were always stopping by and acting like we were having a garage sale. It got old after a while. I would tell the people to get lost and suddenly the house had been trashed and less than a week after that it got torched. I can't prove any conspiracy with anybody but things weren't right in the end. I was really getting weird vibes from people, People I knew and people I barely knew. It just didn't fit. Knowing how hell bent my mother was about things makes me think back on everything in a different light. But I have about as much say in it then as I do now which is to say none at all.

Joan S said...

I don't know what to think. She had COPD, that's what I was told, she was diagnosed with it, just hadn't told anyone and they found out when she died. I just said that lots of people have that and they get treated and are fine. So everything got wrecked. I got the call tonight, and my aunt asked me if I wanted any of mother's belongings, but there aren't any. I said I wanted the family pictures, and they have them, so I have to go to my sisters and get them.

Also I am still in mother's will, and I was asked if I still wanted my half, the other to my sister. My brother gets nothing. Its interesting mother kept me in the will. I didn't know what to say. Its not a lot of money I'm sure, but my sister did a lot for mother, more than me, so I know she has to be angry.

I know mother always took care of her place, it was her haven, an apartment of her own. I don't think mother was sick, other than the old age and COPD, so its hard to say what happened.

Well, I'm looking forward to having the pictures, but I have to go to my sisters for them, that will not be comfortable.

Joan S said...

Sorry for the highjacking, I just realized what I did :(

q1605 said...

Don't worry about it. Although it may warrant a post of your own. Hearing that is kind of like watching a fish trying to fly. No one will ever really know WHY she trashed her house but it seems really bizarre and out of character even for a narc. It brought back a bunch of memories about how my mother handled her mothers possessions at the end. She essentially told me she didn't care and did what she always did. Tell me to do what I want and then pick up the phone and start telling her friends her son has gone crazy. Everything went to the rightful owner in the end anyway(my ex-wife) She ended up with what we acquired during our marriage and everything from my mothers estate. And basically everything my ex owns she stole from me.

Five Hundred Pound Peep said...

Take what's yours Joan, consider it payment for your time and trouble. I'm surprised she left you in the will, but take what is coming to you, weird she cut your brother out, it is strange. Go get your pictures too. It is hard to know what happened. I have a hard time believing someone on the verge of death from COPD would have the strength to trash the place. That could be a lie too, just so they can claim nothing is left available. It could have been neat as a pin. I guess I wouldn't trust any of them.

Five Hundred Pound Peep said...

So creepy they even burned down the house Q, something was really wrong with all that.

Judith said...

So much of this post hits home. Sadly, I can't say I am indifferent to my mother, but at least she's out of my life. I think my biggest regret is that avoiding her meant I chose not to go to my grandfather's funeral (my dad's dad), and I think that probably made my (enabling) father furious at me and possibly destroyed any chance of a relationship with him should my mother die. I say "regret", but I'm not sure I'd do it differently given the chance. I'm much more sane and less self-destructive the further away from them I am.

q1605 said...

I can't say I am indifferent to my mother either but thank god she died and her death brings us the peace of mind we could never get while she was alive.

q1605 said...

It's hard to file things away Joan when there are so many unanswered questions. Me and my sister were just chugging along living our new lives effectively considering ourselves out of the family. All I can tell you is on a Saturday the mailman delivered a registered letter to our house and my wife signed for it. And when we opened it it had a check for $100 and the documents notifying us of her death four months prior. I called my sister and told her to expect the same on Monday. So she refused to sign and I tore her check up and threw it away. My sister called my mother neighbor who told her there was no funeral and that my ex told everyone she had notified us as soon as my mother died which was a lie. So I waited till Monday and started making calls. The first place I called was the funeral home who said they needed written permission from my ex wife before they could do anything for me. So I hung up the phone and sat down and said that's the way she wants it that's the way she gets it. For all I know my ex cut her throat and buried her behind her house. I can't prove it one way or the other. I have never looked back and never will.

q1605 said...

I guess it cost too much to maintain a relationship with her real children so she rented the cheapest daughter she could find.

mulderfan said...

I disagree that narcs are random. Every action, like what Joan's whacko mother did are meant so they can get inside our heads and stay there even after they're dead. Obviously, that was your mother's goal too.
There was a point where I believed a certain member of my NFOO would only be satisfied when he was pissing on my grave but that's wrong. Having their victim die robs them of all their fun and means they have to go through all the work of grooming a new one.

BTW Joan, take the money, you earned it!

Five Hundred Pound Peep said...

Yes she rented the cheapest daughter she could find, another minion who got "paid off". I always find it sick how the narcs stay friends with ex spouses, there is no loyalty, I've seen that dynamic in my own family.

q1605 said...

Mulderfan...I saw a murder mystery movie one time where they were looking at the location of all these murders and the detective says they are a bit too random. Like the guy goes out of the way to look chaotic when in reality it was him just using the appearance of running amok to keep them off their feet. And once they found how he transposed an appearance of chaos over the random actions they guessed his next move and busted him.

q1605 said...

I almost wish I had kept those checks from my mother and cashed them. Like the Harry Chapin song where he drives a cab and picks up his old flame.
And she tips him way too much.
Another man might have been angry.
And another man might have been hurt.
And Another man would have never let her go.
I stuffed the bill in my shirt.
That my long winded way of agreeing with Mulderfan telling Joan to keep what she gets and keep it with a clear conscience.